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I regret migrating to Codeberg

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Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#261

Post by zyx321 »

pelasaco wrote: post #242
zyx321 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the spicy autocomplete.

well one can argue that many more people will write code with AI assistance than without it.. here i see the opposite: The wish of few outweigh the need of many.

Can one argue with a straight face that people will learn to code better by using a predominantly AI-based workflow? Or even learn by reading vibecode uploaded by someone else?

Hell, I'd argue that Vibecode without the prompt that generated it isn't even real open source.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#262

Post by thejosh »

boyter wrote: post #245
thejosh wrote: post #244

I would love to use something that isn't GitHub for code hosting. Codeberg sounds great, but from using it day-to-day, it's really slow sometimes, and frequently times out (from Perth, AU, if it matters). This is not just the SSH protocol for git pushes, but also for browsing. (I do have a self-hosted forgejo (came from gitea), it's great, Postgres database backs up, files are easy to backup, it's also git so I can j…

Tooting my own horn here for search but give https://github.com/boyter/cs a go. You can have a http server up if you like (even modify the templates) and have it sync your repos for you on a schedule you define. Let me know if it fails in some area and I’ll fix it.

Will give it a go! Thanks for tooting! You've just made my afternoon!

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#263

Post by Brian_K_White »

therealpygon wrote: post #58
Aachen wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I voted against, partly because I feel that the text doesn't to justice to such a multifaceted topic. If all projects on Codeberg were human-written, that would be a big seal of quality! There are a lot of projects coming out now where someone feels like they've made a cool thing but it breaks on the first edge case and is entirely unmaintainable. Many are built on wrong principles because the prompt authors aren'…

A big seal of quality because it is human written? Maybe in narrow spaces but in general, I’d put money on the average developer being significantly worse at writing code with bugs than an AI. It’s codebergs infra so their choice, but it seems like an overly simplistic solution to a complicated advancing technology, in that it is a threadbare line between “vibe-coded” and “complex agent harness with human oversight a…

I'd rather read bad poetry written by a person than anything generated by a machine.

Even if an LLM generates "good" poetry, it did not, it mashed up elements of good poetry previously written by people, but stripped of all attribution, and stripped of all intents and insights of those original authors.

Since software has a function besides pure art, it's tempting to think of it as actually nothing but function, and so it doesn't matter how a functional thing comes about, merely that it functions. But I say there is more to software than that, and I'd rather not spend my own time and attention on things that no one else spent any of their own time and attention on.

Maybe codeberg is reacting too crudely, so maybe I don't defend them or this action fully in it's current form, but there is nothing ridiculous about the concept of a human-only filter being a seal of quality. The quality isn't the code all works the best, the quality is it's all human.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#264

Post by jraph »

> We now even have people like Linus Torvalds making the fairly reasonable argument that an LLM is just a tool, and “clearly a useful one”

I don't think this argument is reasonable at all. Many are concerned about the environmental and societal impacts of LLMs, there are many ethical concerns around them as well, there are concerns that they could cause a bubble burst / a major economical crisis. Regardless your opinion on all these things, that's quite the undertaking for "just a tool"! This is unheard of for something like a hammer, for instance.

> If the maintainer of the largest and most consequential open-source project on the planet can treat LLMs as a tool to be judged on its results rather than a category to be banned on sight, a backyard code forge can manage the same

Linus Torvalds can be wrong at times, like anyone else.

It's a shame an authority like Linus Torvalds shared this opinion, now people are taking it even more seriously.

He considers technical merit above all else, even above what allows "technique" to exist in the first place. He always have. It might have helped a lot in the success of Linux, but I still think this is deeply flawed.

Whether you love, or hate, or don't care about LLMs, they are not "just a tool".

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#265

Post by layer8 »

chmod775 wrote: post #250

Keeping up with this stuff is for people who define their identity through virtue signalling and whatever personality trait they have decided to make the problem of everyone around them. Let them have their little corner of the internet and just stay away. There's plenty of alternatives run by people who don't feel the need to bring their personal baggage into a cooperative environment.

What are these plentiful alternatives? SourceHut also comes with “personal baggage”.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#266

Post by mcv »

0rzech wrote: post #254
mcv wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imagine LLMs got twice as good as they are today) I have no idea how you'd quantify that, but they're pretty good already. At least in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing. I share everybody's concern about many aspects of LLMs; copyright, data collection, energy use, component prices, not to mention what it does to us: outsourcing our thinking, dependency, slop. And I don't entirely disagree wanting t…

> No idea where yet; I don't want to go to Github, and I believe there were similar concerns about Gitlab, so I don't know where to go yet. Perhaps https://radicle.dev or https://tangled.org would be fine for you?

Is that a code repository built on top of the protocol underneath bluesky? Fascinating idea.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#268

Post by lowsong »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #78

> Using LLMs to work with your code gives you a kick of adrenaline. You can develop at a rapid pace, build things as if you had a large team. Only that you have none. In fact, you are (often) alone, working with a statistical machine that turns energy into code. Is anyone else extremely annoyed with the way this is written? To me it reeks of paternalistic arrogance that simultaneously exposes the author's armchair ps…

Except that it's true. It feels good to use them, to feel productive, and that is addictive.

That's the hard truth: Vibe coders are addicted to using LLMs. You're going to reject that. You're now going straight to typing up a response about how I'm wrong. But addicts often cannot accept they are addicts. It's why the first step is always recognizing you have a problem, because even that is a hard step.

Tech is full of people who think they're smarter than everyone else, which, as always, makes you more susceptible to addiction. If you think "I'm smart, I can't get addicted. I can tell the difference." then no. No you can't.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#269

Post by Hendrikto »

layer8 wrote: post #265
chmod775 wrote: post #250

Keeping up with this stuff is for people who define their identity through virtue signalling and whatever personality trait they have decided to make the problem of everyone around them. Let them have their little corner of the internet and just stay away. There's plenty of alternatives run by people who don't feel the need to bring their personal baggage into a cooperative environment.

What are these plentiful alternatives? SourceHut also comes with “personal baggage”.

It really is a shame Drew is so opinionated and dogmatic.

I like most of his work, but his politics make Source Hut too shaky of a foundation to build on.

Re: I regret migrating to Codeberg

#270

Post by lkey »

chmod775 wrote: post #250

Keeping up with this stuff is for people who define their identity through virtue signalling and whatever personality trait they have decided to make the problem of everyone around them. Let them have their little corner of the internet and just stay away. There's plenty of alternatives run by people who don't feel the need to bring their personal baggage into a cooperative environment.

The article calls another entity exerting its right of free association 'censorship'. This too is signaling a certain set of values.

Even Immoral and Amoral companies serve values that others might consider 'baggage'.

Palantir worshipping death and war has caused their civilian contracts to suffer and languish. This is baggage; It may be their own death knell.

'(amorally) maximizing shareholder value (for the next quarter)' is (for me) an insane value system on its face, and makes problems for everyone around them, yet who argue like you are here don't see that as 'personal baggage' at all.

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