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DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

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Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#161

Post by budman1 »

dmix wrote: post #134
Zsfe510asG wrote: post #14

The article smells of AI psychosis. They are already "orchestrating". In the first Iraq war, they went in and won. In the second one, it took years to sort of occupy the country. Now they struggle against Iran and "orchestrate" F-16s that can be shot down instantly by AA weapons. Since COVID the world has collectively lost its mind.

> Now they struggle against Iran Are they? F-16 wasn’t designed to operate in modern denied environments and more jet damage has been done from friendly fire than Iran.

it may have not been designed to, but it has been modified to.

there may not be any stealth, but there are other countermeasures against missiles, AA, and other fighters.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#162

Post by Hikikomori »

beezlewax wrote: post #151
Hikikomori wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We almost had it in the 50s when US airforce wanted to build a completely automatic nuclear response system that would launch on warning, or if a glitch happened, without failsafes built in.

Isn't that the plot of Dr. Strangelove?

Its also real.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#163

Post by budman1 »

stackskipton wrote: post #61
bloqs wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They did a small set of tests with one Pilot IIRC?

I think they did it in simulation with several. In any case, dogfighting is commonly done because it's great training but in most cases, you expect most Air to Air combat being flinging missiles at each other.

s/most/all/g

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#164

Post by budman1 »

psunavy03 wrote: post #107
whartung wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, they done this in simulation, and the human pilots did not fare well. I don't know of the computer aircraft were able to fly beyond human limits (i.e. they don't black out) or not. If the computers can actually fly to what the airframe is capable of, they would have a distinct advantage over the human pilots.

The simulator is not the aircraft.

with respect to assessing tactics, it is very close.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#165

Post by duped »

chasd00 wrote: post #66
Zsfe510asG wrote: post #14

The article smells of AI psychosis. They are already "orchestrating". In the first Iraq war, they went in and won. In the second one, it took years to sort of occupy the country. Now they struggle against Iran and "orchestrate" F-16s that can be shot down instantly by AA weapons. Since COVID the world has collectively lost its mind.

> In the first Iraq war, they went in and won. In the second one, it took years to sort of occupy the country. The scope of the first Iraq war was to force them out of Kuwait. That is very different then the invasion of 2003. If you just think about it this should be obvious.

I mean the lack of clear goals in American wars just reinforces their point

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#166

Post by budman1 »

bronco21016 wrote: post #118
psunavy03 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simulator is not the aircraft.

The first time an airline pilot flies a new aircraft type in the real world they fly it with a plane full of passengers. All the training up to that point is done in a simulator. Now that first flight is with an experienced training captain but the point is the simulator is good enough that the FAA has signed off on using that as the primary training device. It's been this way for at least 25 years.

no airline will take the risk. they will have a check ride, with an instructor.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#167

Post by dmix »

budman1 wrote: post #161
dmix wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now they struggle against Iran Are they? F-16 wasn’t designed to operate in modern denied environments and more jet damage has been done from friendly fire than Iran.

it may have not been designed to, but it has been modified to. there may not be any stealth, but there are other countermeasures against missiles, AA, and other fighters.

Yes but everyone knows you can't eliminate the risk from modern MANPADs even with fancy electronic systems and flares. They are conducting combat flights over a country with thousands of chinese MANPADs, the fact they haven't lost more planes is really a great achievement.

The US lost 73 planes in Desert Storm to Iraq and that war only lasted 43 days. By comparison the losses from Iran have been shockingly low and shows how much US navy/airforce capabilities have matured.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#168

Post by throwaway27448 »

nostrademons wrote: post #154
asdfman123 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Updated to reflect modern realities: > In a panic, they try to pull the plug. Skynet lobbyists descend upon Washington. Skynet is reinstated, and later the US declares a new war in the middle east. The Skynet stock rallies.

> The Skynet stock rallies. Interestingly, a lot of people are looking at LLMs or automated drones as "AI", but I think that capitalism is a better contender. It's a self-healing, self-organizing system that has its own logic and seems to have escaped the desires of its human creators. It treats individual firms as the cells within it, individual humans as its DNA molecules, and it even has a form of tissue different…

I 100% agree that skynet is most satisfying when read a metaphor for the market. I was extremely surprised with the rise of LLMs that so many people took the threat of AI as literal.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#169

Post by ls612 »

smackeyacky wrote: post #144
XorNot wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also there's just an absolutely bonkers number of F-16s in service today. Using them as Loyal Wingman type aircraft would look pretty appealing cost wise.

Not when you consider the cost per hour of flight. You want a wingman you’re better off with cheap, cheap to run and disposable

If these are airframes near the end of their natural lives it seems like a reasonable use for them, and safety margins matter less when nobody is on board. It’s certainly a better value proposition than using them as targets on the range.

Re: DARPA, U.S. Air Force fly AI-controlled F-16

#170

Post by cucumber3732842 »

rogerrogerr wrote: post #104
cucumber3732842 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conventional autpilot is like a zip tie on the throttle, only it deals in outputs (your actual heading) rather than inputs (pedals and stick) I assume what they're going for here is something substantially smarter and more reactive to changing conditions than that. Something that can be used during the "unscripted" parts of the flight during which a) you're most likely to have multiple crew working hard b) you're mos…

> Conventional autpilot is like a zip tie on the throttle, only it deals in outputs (your actual heading) rather than inputs (pedals and stick) What does this mean? I’m a pilot and none of it is making any sense.

Auto pilot holds your setting, for the most part. Yeah you can program turns and stuff and there's simple automation but for the most part it deals in simple fixed things that are defined at the time you engage it.

Like putting a zip tie on the throttle of just about anything so the linkage can't move and you get one constant setting that holds.

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