Would it even be possible to ban open weight models, given all the ways they can be used in finetuned models or online services, also in 3rd countries?
Only from federal contractors
Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#592Earlier quoted context omitted.
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> "Both sides are the same" is the last bastion of denial.
This is hyperpartisan bullshit that you obviously wouldn't say if someone were choosing between a red shirt and a blue shirt. If you support some political candidate, defend them on the merits of their positions and capabilities, not by repeating content-free jingles.
Or even worse, based on unexplored counterfactuals: "X" did this, don't you wish you picked "Y"? As if the fact that the red shirt turned out to be flammable means that the blue shirt wouldn't have been. Then when somebody points out that the labels are the same, "whataboutism!"
Even "the last bastion" is just a cynical flourish to associate this sentiment with a saying that has value to people on its own merits.
> cope
And this is twitter/online addiction. With an opposition like this, Trump will be president until the heart attack kills him. Addicted to self-regard.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#593Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Do you think side gigs are reported? Yes. The FRED data includes informal employment. They do months and months of exhaustive surveys all of the country to put together their data. > You quote unemployment numbers without admitting that people who have given up or simple failed to land a job are not included in those numbers. No, I included data about labor force participation, which is only down a little. > The nu…
I mean, everything you just said is trivially refutable with just Google. FRED data isn’t the governments unemployment figures. FRED data relies on people to self report their side gigs that they aren’t paying taxes on? It is a known gap.
Ah. So you’re fine with sources, but just the ones that support your position.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#594The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.
Its even dumber when you consider AI model output was not considered copyrighted or eligible for copyright to begin with, as far as I know. How exactly would this even be "theft"?
It’s theft because a lot of rich people have money on the line.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#595I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…
You're not seeing it because you're thinking in terms of internal US economics, but this is a question about international economics and geopolitical leverage in the distant future. The reason to consider the ban is because it might be the only way to preserve a fully autonomous and independent American frontier AI stack and the long-term strategic value of possessing such a stack could vastly outweigh the cost of gi…
It puts all US companies at a price disadvantage and forces American company to shoulder the load of training frontier models most will never need while the rest of the world has cheap AI access.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#596Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#597I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…
The CFO or wtv that tweeted, their argument was, if you allow cheap free competitive models, you will stop the influx of capital in frontier development of even more powerful LLMs, thus capping how far the tech could reach. Obviously, they're mostly asking for regulation to save their money, but it seems their argument is that without an environment that rewards the development of the next frontier model the tech mig…
Isn't that why Americans pay so much more for their medicine and drugs so the rest of the world can get them cheaper.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#598Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're not seeing it because you're thinking in terms of internal US economics, but this is a question about international economics and geopolitical leverage in the distant future. The reason to consider the ban is because it might be the only way to preserve a fully autonomous and independent American frontier AI stack and the long-term strategic value of possessing such a stack could vastly outweigh the cost of gi…
It puts all US companies at a price disadvantage and forces American company to shoulder the load of training frontier models most will never need while the rest of the world has cheap AI access.
The keyword in your sentence is "access". The rest of the world would have cheap access to AI, but no ownership of anything at the frontier. If the US joined the rest of the world, declined to develop frontier AI, and allowed itself to become dependent on cheap Chinese AI, once that dependency was fully realized it would eventually translate into a lack of access to the frontier. That doesn't matter until, suddenly, it becomes the single most important thing to the entire country's future.
China is making a simple bet: that the US will offshore AI in favor of cheap tokens, just like the US previously offshored manufacturing in favor of cheap goods. They're doing this because they know that if they alone possess frontier manufacturing and AI capabilities, then they alone can build the world's most powerful technologies in the future which combine the two (e.g., robotics that will revolutionize all their industries, domestic life, and military far beyond any other country).
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#599Why isn’t there a competitive US or European open weights model?
The Chinese open weights models are copies of the American closed ones. Nobody in the US is trying to do that, I guess.
They cannot be copies, because all of them have different structures, which are explained in published research papers, while nobody knows the structure of the American SOTA models.
It is also impossible for China to have accessed the hundreds or thousands of terabytes of data that must have been hoarded by OpenAI, Anthropic or Google, so the Chinese must have gathered training data sets by themselves, by crawling the Internet and using pirate libraries, the same like Anthropic and OpenAI.
If the American allegations were true, then some Chinese companies might have extracted some blackbox data about the American models, by API querying, in an amount small enough that it could be used only for the post-training of a model created independently.
Such an information extraction is a breach of contract, but it cannot be called "copying", because it can be only an infinitesimal fraction of the information stored in a SOTA LLM.
Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI
#600I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…
The CFO or wtv that tweeted, their argument was, if you allow cheap free competitive models, you will stop the influx of capital in frontier development of even more powerful LLMs, thus capping how far the tech could reach. Obviously, they're mostly asking for regulation to save their money, but it seems their argument is that without an environment that rewards the development of the next frontier model the tech mig…
How about: excellent technology will demand premium prices, and hence will have the capital to back it ... horseshit technology will die a death, and any horseshit capital that backed it.
Opening up will make things more efficient and at least give said horseshit capital a chance at being redeployed elsewhere a slightly higher chance of being successful.