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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#231

Post by tokai »

nekusar wrote: post #139
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

Are public libraries thieves? Is Anna's Library thieves? Is Library Genesis thieves? Is Archive.org thieves? Is PirateBay thieves? They all look like public libraries to me. And better access to all human knowledge is a net positive for everyone.

Public library buy the works they distribute. They also pay for the usage of these works. Copying of said works is still illegal. You should read up on how libraries actually work.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#233

Post by nixon_why69 »

senordevnyc wrote: post #144
ch4s3 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

REAL income is adjusted for inflation. If real median income is increasing then it is outpacing inflation by definition.

Why is it that the cynics and doomers always have such a poor grasp of the data?

Because the basket of goods for inflation doesn't separate optional from mandatory consumption.

If housing, healthcare and education are outpacing the topline inflation number, a lot of marginal families will be squeezed. The cheap LG TV doesn't really make up for it.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#235

Post by lenerdenator »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #213
lenerdenator wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to widespread theft is not to simply allow the guy who did the theft to get away with it because his implementation was cheaper. It's to punish theft.

not when by your own rules it's legally ruled "not theft".

Rules are flexible. The people who pay attention know this.

People expect the US to apply rules evenly to both American AI efforts and that of its primary geopolitical rival. China certainly doesn't do that. Their entire economy is based around giving Chinese firms the advantage regardless of what it means for the wallets of consumers at home or abroad.

Since that's who we're playing against, and no one is going to willingly give up their open-weight models from the totalitarian rival, well, then use their ruleset.

It's that or punish the theft by making the US companies pay for their training data and blocking outside efforts that trained off the data the US companies stole.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#236

Post by [deleted] »

nekusar wrote: post #139
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

Are public libraries thieves? Is Anna's Library thieves? Is Library Genesis thieves? Is Archive.org thieves? Is PirateBay thieves? They all look like public libraries to me. And better access to all human knowledge is a net positive for everyone.

[deleted]

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#237

Post by tokai »

ch4s3 wrote: post #47
yoyohello13 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we not there yet?

US real median household income has been steadily rising[1] for the last 40+ years. Life expectancy is rising again after dipping and plateauing for a few years. Employment numbers are pretty good given the macro headwinds. The US forms ~5.9 million new businesses per year which vastly out paces the EU. The US isn't without problems, but we're doing OK. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N It's incred…

>Life expectancy is rising again after dipping and plateauing for a few years

Life expectancy dipping for any develop country, even if temporary, is an embarrassing catastrophe.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#238

Post by Tyrubias »

GlickWick wrote: post #50
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

I do care. It's an unfortunate truth that we're exiting a global peace era and entering one of (hopefully just...) implied conflict. Our biggest geopolitical rival that's been threatening a hot war also distilling the things we build is not a good thing. Trump is a huge self-own by our electorate sadly, but being concerned about a conflict between China and the US is a very bi-partisan concern for good reason.

Our biggest geopolitical rival is also the only thing standing in the way of a potential duopoly on LLMs using closed weight models. I would not say I’m a fan of the PRC by any means, but I also do not want to see closed weight models controlled by two big companies dominating what I can use. Especially since said companies arbitrarily restrict model usage and can ban users for no reason.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#239

Post by mikem170 »

GlickWick wrote: post #80
solumunus wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not convinced that it’s a bad thing. What is your actual argument?

My argument is that a major world power is pushing towards global conflict by simultaneously funding the conquest of Ukraine while building its own invasion fleet for Taiwan. Allowing them to also destabilize us internally is not exactly a good idea.

> funding the conquest of Ukraine

It is well known that China is still engaged in trade with Russia- oil and gold going one way, drones and weapon components going the other.

But you said funding, and I assume you meant things like grants or loans. Do you have any sources for that? I could only find one that was attributed to indirect open source intelligence, nothing specific.

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