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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#401

Post by munk-a »

stusmall wrote: post #351
GodelNumbering wrote: post #281

Proprietary model weights are IP, their outputs are not IP and I can't imagine a court decision that would rule otherwise because that would set an extremely far reaching and dangerous precedent, even for American businesses. I don't think distillation as 'stealing IP' has any legal legs. They can probably claim violation of ToS at best because the terms of use do prohibit use for training rival models.

I can't wrap my head around the idea that distillation is IP theft but mass training on books, music and art without consent is fair use. The two stances are incompatible. If it is transformative use of a book, it is transformative use of AI output.

I really hope that when a sane administration returns to power in the US we'll actually get a reckoning over how irrational it was to not restrict training data.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#402

Post by bix6 »

Aarostotle wrote: post #323
bix6 wrote: post #244

> Almost 200 Silicon Valley companies, including Proton and Y Combinator…On Wednesday, the newly-formed Little Tech Association YC is little tech? lol wut.

YC's entire business is finding little tech companies and helping them grow.

Calling YC little tech is hilarious. Billions under management and many billion+ companies.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#403

Post by bix6 »

robocat wrote: post #344
bix6 wrote: post #244

> Almost 200 Silicon Valley companies, including Proton and Y Combinator…On Wednesday, the newly-formed Little Tech Association YC is little tech? lol wut.

> Little Tech Association "Little Tech" in contrast to "Big Tech" monopolies and hyperscalers Awful website: ugly particle systems with text you can't scroll to (on SE): https://littletech.org/mission

Sorry but isn’t YCs entire goal to turn “little” tech into “big” tech?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#404

Post by bix6 »

dolebirchwood wrote: post #352
bix6 wrote: post #244

> Almost 200 Silicon Valley companies, including Proton and Y Combinator…On Wednesday, the newly-formed Little Tech Association YC is little tech? lol wut.

A little bit of Googling goes a long way...

A little bit of explaining does to. What’s your point?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#405

Post by kennywinker »

root_axis wrote: post #167
kennywinker wrote: post #4

Under what authority could he block access?

Have you been paying attention the last two years? With a few exceptions, he has unilateral authority.

I guess my question was, is this a threat to do something legal or something illegal

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#406

Post by Slartie »

capevace wrote: post #394
Matl wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Someone please enlighten me what the actual argument here is, cause I can’t see it. > The only thing a ban would do is protect the American market from further downward price pressure on inference, protecting VC investors in the short term. But thats also an admittance that the American labs can’t compete on merit anymore That's the argument. To be precise the publicly stated argument is that they're attacking Amer…

But isn‘t the whole argument of „winner takes all“ already dead, if china is such a big threat that the US labs need import controls? Distilling or not, they are clearly close enough to the frontier, that the supposed „free market“ country needs market controls. That may work for US markets. But not the rest of the world. Idea: petrodollar policy becomes „tokendollar“, enforced by US military dominance. If you force…

They are simply out of ideas to keep the most expensive party in the history of mankind going.

That's it. Simple as that. When you grasp for straws in panic mode, you don't exactly spend time strategizing and weighing the pros and cons of each straw carefully.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#407

Post by npodbielski »

drbscl wrote: post #116
npodbielski wrote: post #60

So Y Combinator signed it too? But this is HN, Y combinator website. I think I am missing something because I never read any opinion like 'we should ban Chinese models'.

OpenAI's strategy lead made a post on X advocating for the banning of Chinese models in the wake of Kimi K3's release. To be clear, YCombinator et al are advocating for them to remain unbanned.

ah that makes sense now! I must be tired...

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#409

Post by munk-a »

masfuerte wrote: post #359
delecti wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trade secrets are a type of IP.

Yes, but if a company publishes its trade secrets on the web you are entitled to read them and use them.

Only if you're going to use them to train an LLM!

Also, more seriously, there are plenty of pieces of information that are compelled to be published that don't lose their confidentiality. There actually is a general concept that confidentiality can be lost if you are negligent in its protection but it's a very nuanced thing.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#410

Post by nathan_compton »

Towaway69 wrote: post #366

What happened to free trade and globalisation? Oooohhh only when it serves the west. What happened to the invisible hand of the market? Oooohhh it only when it serves the west. Well damn that the Chinese are playing the game “capitalism” better than the west. The last time this happen, the west just forced opium on China. Ironically it was the west that forced China to open its markets in the first place. History jus…

Not the west, just rich people in the west.
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