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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#351

Post by stusmall »

GodelNumbering wrote: post #281

Proprietary model weights are IP, their outputs are not IP and I can't imagine a court decision that would rule otherwise because that would set an extremely far reaching and dangerous precedent, even for American businesses. I don't think distillation as 'stealing IP' has any legal legs. They can probably claim violation of ToS at best because the terms of use do prohibit use for training rival models.

I can't wrap my head around the idea that distillation is IP theft but mass training on books, music and art without consent is fair use. The two stances are incompatible. If it is transformative use of a book, it is transformative use of AI output.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#354

Post by Matl »

capevace wrote: post #350

I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…

> Someone please enlighten me what the actual argument here is, cause I can’t see it.

> The only thing a ban would do is protect the American market from further downward price pressure on inference, protecting VC investors in the short term. But thats also an admittance that the American labs can’t compete on merit anymore

That's the argument. To be precise the publicly stated argument is that they're attacking American providers by distilling. The real aim is to eliminate competition because otherwise Anthropic and OpenAI are non viable and the US views them as crucial for winning the 'AI race' which they see as putting whoever wins it on top in terms of warfare/economic power etc.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#355

Post by mmaunder »

vkaku wrote: post #325

Read this thread when you get the time: https://x.com/_vkaku/status/2080352797606744209 Open Data+Open Models gives everyone else an advantage and bringing regulatory capture here should be appealed and brought to the FTC and the courts to challenge such regulations. Startups need better than this whole lock down into four overvalued frontier models in the US sort of thing

Not seeing a long thread there. Is that the wrong link?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#356

Post by ThunderBee »

capevace wrote: post #350

I‘m not even sure what the argument for banning Chinese models/open weights even is supposed to be? 1. if it’s to stop hackers doing hacking things with „uncontrollable models“ then, well… they’re already doing something illegal to begin with, why would they care about breaking another law running these models? 2. if it’s to stop foreign actors, then that ban would not apply to them anyway 3. it’s not stopping distil…

You aren’t missing anything. There isn’t an actual argument, this is strictly an attempt at regulatory capture.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#357

Post by zarzavat »

Someone explain to me how the US would stop people from using Chinese models?

Anyone in Europe can download and run a Chinese model and serve it up on the open internet to people in the US. What can the US do about that? The only thing the US can maybe do is ban exports of high powered GPUs to the EU. However the EU can retaliate by banning export of ASML machines to the US, so I don't think the US has that card to play.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#359

Post by masfuerte »

delecti wrote: post #320
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proprietary model weights are IP I don't think they are. Not copyright at least. There may be some "trade secret" stuff for them but they're not copyrightable.

Trade secrets are a type of IP.

Yes, but if a company publishes its trade secrets on the web you are entitled to read them and use them.
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