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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#221

Post by nekusar »

GlickWick wrote: post #190
nekusar wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm seeing how USA vs China is going. USA: https://www.linkedin.com/videos/tpopomaronis_ive-seen-some-e... China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUbbBdSGHE8 But... China is definitely copying... Hahahahha

I’m sorry but this is a perfect example of what the person above criticized but in reverse. Come on now. China’s youth unemployment rate is 15%, and that’s likely heavily astroturfed to look lower than it is. Even 15% though is terrifying for a mature economy.

The USA has sold its tech base off to enshittifiers. They defunded and destroyed most critical tech research.

https://www.dongascience.com/en/news/75540

China leads in 66 of 74 critical tech areas. The USA has a whopping... 8.

But hey, the USA's MBA "leadership" figures how much to worsen everything and extract more profit. I guess that counts for "innovation", in the Private Equity books.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#222

Post by crote »

dataflow wrote: post #161
4wsn wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing about this "we" as if it's still a coherent nation state and not just an unaccountable ruling class from both parties where the most severe consequence is failing upwards into a lobbyist provided position. I literally have no moral preference when it comes to the US or the CCP nor do I care if the entire nation state fails, let alone loses to a geopolitical rival.

> nor do I care if the entire nation state fails You should care because of the nukes, if nothing else.

Are we even sure they still work? The last test was 34 years ago, after all.

For all we know some crafty contractors or NCOs have been making very good money off of selling "spare" parts - just like we saw when Russia first tried to invade Ukraine...

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#223

Post by Tyrubias »

WarmWash wrote: post #134
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

Training on copyright was ruled to be transformative. Anthropic was just fined for not paying for the pirated books they copied into a training database. Same as anyone else who copied pirated IP onto their hard drive. However, training an AI on copyright has been ruled to be sufficiently transformative and not a violation of IP laws. The same way you can make a gameplay clone of Call of Duty without any issue.

By that same argument, distilling a model to train your own is also transformative. We can’t have it both ways. Either both training on copyright and distillation are transformative, or both are illegal. Also, it is not a matter of settled law that training on copyright is transformative. That was a single case, and others are still pending AFAIK.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#224

Post by preg_match »

gdiamos wrote: post #44

I think we should shut it off. It would force US companies to build open models.

I think it would do the opposite. They would have a monopoly just handed to them, and a large market with no options. They'd have zero incentives to provide open weight models.

Right now, I think their incentive is the highest: Chinese AI companies are dropping competitive models left and right, and clearly American companies are feeling the pressure, given they're pulling every legal leg they can to suppress their competition. If we just remove the competition, Anthropic et al win. It's a temporary and short-sighted victory, but this is America. Every company is short-sighted, it's baked into our financial infrastructure.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#225

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

lenerdenator wrote: post #174
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

The answer to widespread theft is not to simply allow the guy who did the theft to get away with it because his implementation was cheaper. It's to punish theft.

Exactly! While the people who spent more money on their theft are rewarded with more business to counteract their losses! Justice is finally being wrought on those who have wronged society with their wicked ways!

(/s if it wasn't obvious)

Being serious, it is far more likely, especially given the events of the past 18 momths, that Trump is just doing autocrat things because he can, and ultimately doesn't really care what is and is not good for American business as long as he continues to grow his wealth through corrupt behavior.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#226

Post by sarchertech »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #187
ch4s3 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think once you have a good command of data and broader trends its harder to be cynical or a doomer. You just see that things aren't perfect but are larger better than the past on most metrics.

I think it's the dissonance between what the data say and just looking around. I see far more homeless, friends and family are more stressed, life in general just feels harder with less opportunity. Then you have the data people saying "no your life is actually great." So why the dissonance? I don't think it's just social media brainwashing.

The reason we have data is because of all the biases that come with “just looking around”. Confirmation bias and selection bias are very powerful.

I strongly dislike Donald Trump, and he has done some terrible things to our country. But my dislike of him also makes me more likely to notice the bad things happening around me.

It happens with conservatives too. Ask my conservative family about how frequently men pretend to be trans and go into women’s bathrooms to get a peek. Ask them how often non-citizens vote. Ask them how the current crime rate compares to when they grew up.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#227

Post by SXX »

sroussey wrote: post #215
crote wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As if scraping the entire internet doesn't break thousands of TOSes?

Yes, indeed! I have a site where 99% of the traffic is Claude. I could ban them but I don’t bother.

Better to feed them poisoned results...

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#228

Post by danesparza »

krapp wrote: post #37
danesparza wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> I wish all Americans were asking thoughtful questions like this. No notes. Why? We already know Trump often acts without legal authority, and just as often without consequence. Those thoughtful questions have been asked and answered many times, why do we need to ask them again?

It's the Americans that aren't asking these questions that worry me. It is a significant percentage of the population.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#229

Post by ClumsyPilot »

GlickWick wrote: post #98
guax wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might wanna reflect on who’s threatening hot war lately.

The main actors threatening (and delivering) a hot war are China, and by proxy, Russia. The Ukraine war is absolutely and transparently enabled by China, who is also trying to actively destabilize the EU and the US in order to make its conquest of Taiwan more likely. Yes, the US has an idiot in charge who is threatening these things in response, too. However, unlike China, the electorate does not support him. His ele…

> The main actors threatening (and delivering) a hot war are China

China is actually the adult in the room.

Since 1979, 45 years ago, China has not dropped a single bomb on foreign land. That’s two generations peace.

In that timeframe, USA has attacked 37 countries, France 22, Britain 10, and Italy has attacked 6.

What determines if a country is a threat? Simple test - would they arrest Eipstein and execute him?

More politically correct phrasing - “do they respect American economic elites.” ?

If the answer is no, the country is ‘a threat to the west’

You don’t believe me? Name 2 countries that don’t fit this model.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#230

Post by aerodexis »

chrisnight wrote: post #15

> the US can “sanction” companies that engage in intellectual property theft. Peak hypocrisy, US AI companies can train on unlimited intellectual property with 0 rights to it, while Chinese AI companies have to explicitly get the rights to data that isn’t even copyrightable/copyrighted (since AI alone can’t copyright it).

too bad hypocrisy never got in the way of people making money
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