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Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

politico.com

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Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#211

Post by crote »

jMyles wrote: post #171
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

The era of so-called "intellectual property" is over. You can accept it or not. But it's going to be a lot easier if you do.

So how come Disney still gets upset when I provide copies of their movies on my website as "training set for biological neural networks"?

The problem isn't that IP is dying - in most industries it died ages ago. The problem is that it is now explicitly reserved for the rich.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#212

Post by TacticalCoder »

sroussey wrote: post #182
jchw wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its even dumber when you consider AI model output was not considered copyrighted or eligible for copyright to begin with, as far as I know. How exactly would this even be "theft"?

It’s not they, but it does break TOS.

It's still the pot calling the kettle black.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#213

Post by skeeter2020 »

lenerdenator wrote: post #174
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

The answer to widespread theft is not to simply allow the guy who did the theft to get away with it because his implementation was cheaper. It's to punish theft.

not when by your own rules it's legally ruled "not theft".

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#214

Post by FpUser »

WarmWash wrote: post #134
ninjahawk1 wrote: post #34

The U.S. does NOT have copyright protections on the data that AI models were and are trained on, it was mass theft. Now all of a sudden, the Chinese are stealing from the thieves and we’re supposed to care? No one cares, we just want cheaper AI models that are equally as powerful. They’re all thieves regardless.

Training on copyright was ruled to be transformative. Anthropic was just fined for not paying for the pirated books they copied into a training database. Same as anyone else who copied pirated IP onto their hard drive. However, training an AI on copyright has been ruled to be sufficiently transformative and not a violation of IP laws. The same way you can make a gameplay clone of Call of Duty without any issue.

>"Anthropic was just fined for not paying for the pirated books they copied into a training database."

Normal person would be sitting in jail for doing same thing. It is a shame they call it justice.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#215

Post by sroussey »

crote wrote: post #194
sroussey wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not they, but it does break TOS.

As if scraping the entire internet doesn't break thousands of TOSes?

Yes, indeed! I have a site where 99% of the traffic is Claude. I could ban them but I don’t bother.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#216

Post by ch4s3 »

yoyohello13 wrote: post #187
ch4s3 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think once you have a good command of data and broader trends its harder to be cynical or a doomer. You just see that things aren't perfect but are larger better than the past on most metrics.

I think it's the dissonance between what the data say and just looking around. I see far more homeless, friends and family are more stressed, life in general just feels harder with less opportunity. Then you have the data people saying "no your life is actually great." So why the dissonance? I don't think it's just social media brainwashing.

I'm not saying any one person's individual life is necessarily better or worse, just that the median person is doing a little better than a few years ago. obviously there are long tails of outcomes in the US.

I'd also point out that the US has seen better wage growth and less inflation in recent years than the rest of the OECD, by comparison we're doing OK-er than our peers.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#217

Post by Avicebron »

GlickWick wrote: post #137
stanleykm wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to stop watching those “China is gonna collapse any minute now…” youtube videos

I don’t. I do read major reputed economists though, and they are not exactly bullish on China. Don’t create fictional versions of the people you argue with. This is the second time in a span of 10 minutes that you’ve done it. It completely undermines any attempt to discuss something, and drops your integrity to zero.

The term you're looking for is 网络水军.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#218

Post by drdexebtjl »

GlickWick wrote: post #190
nekusar wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I'm seeing how USA vs China is going. USA: https://www.linkedin.com/videos/tpopomaronis_ive-seen-some-e... China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUbbBdSGHE8 But... China is definitely copying... Hahahahha

I’m sorry but this is a perfect example of what the person above criticized but in reverse. Come on now. China’s youth unemployment rate is 15%, and that’s likely heavily astroturfed to look lower than it is. Even 15% though is terrifying for a mature economy.

It doesn’t sound like their society or their economy is collapsing.

Like ours would if we had 15% youth unemployment.

Maybe we’re projecting our values?

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#219

Post by encom »

dgellow wrote: post #136
GlickWick wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main actors threatening (and delivering) a hot war are China, and by proxy, Russia. The Ukraine war is absolutely and transparently enabled by China, who is also trying to actively destabilize the EU and the US in order to make its conquest of Taiwan more likely. Yes, the US has an idiot in charge who is threatening these things in response, too. However, unlike China, the electorate does not support him. His ele…

The US isn’t just _threatening_, it is in an open war right now, invaded Venezuela, started trade war with US allies

>invaded Venezuela

Didn't happen. An intervention happened. An invasion lasts more than two hours.

Re: Startup founders urge U.S. government not to shut off Chinese open weight AI

#220

Post by duplessitous »

GlickWick wrote: post #173
duplessitous wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite withdrawing from our role on the world stage, we have in no way adapted isolationist like policies. We kidnapped the leader of another country, we are bombing Iran with impunity and will begin striking civilian infrastructure as a response to terrorist within that country, https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2026/07/22/trum... China didn't make us do this any more than they made us bomb civilian fish…

Nobody is refusing to acknowledge our role in destabilizing things. This is a thread about why the US might be afraid of an also bad-actor rival funding a huge proxy war against it controlling major technology.

I mean if you want to get back on the topic of this thread, it has nothing to do with what you just said. The thread started by discussing AI distillation and this was your initial comment, just to get us back on track

> Our biggest geopolitical rival that's been threatening a hot war also distilling the things we build is not a good thing

They didn't distill Fable, it is impossible on any timeline. So where do we go next, the start of this thread is a complete dead-end as it is asserting a falsehood

This was the comment i responded to so we can get back on track to that comment if you'd like

> I think the major destabilizing force is the country that has been building the infrastructure for a hot war over Taiwan for the last decade while simultaneously blatantly funding the conquest of Ukraine.

We are refusing to aid Ukraine and actively antagonize their leader. We are kidnapping leaders from other countries. We are bombing civilian infrastructure. We are the major destabilizing force, not the one planning a hypothetical invasion

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