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New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

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Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#81

Post by eigenspace »

artisinal wrote: post #76
xingped wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC, Framework did ask AMD to explore a more repairable approach with socketable CPU and RAM for these chips and they did but came back and said it wouldn't perform well enough that way.

And that is where Framework should have stepped in and said “we as a company value repairability, so we will take the performance hit to make the product easier to repair”

It doesn't work that way. AMD said they simply couldn't do it. It wasn't about taking some modest performance hit, it was that they couldn't make the chip function with modular memory due to signal integrity problems.

Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#82

Post by eigenspace »

notdefio wrote: post #7

Im less interested in the memory than the memory bandwidth. The current system with 128GB can load pretty big models, but its meaningless unless you want to wait 40 minutes per prompt. I've had best results with Qwen3.6-35B-A3B, which uses 40GB of memory, but only uses 3 billion parameters per token which helps with throughput. Until memory bandwidth significantly improves I just can't see myself wanting to use all t…

For those wondering, the AI Max 395 has around 256GB/s of memory bandwidth, whereas this new 495 has 273GB/s. So a very modest improvement in bandwidth.

Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#83

Post by tristor »

artisinal wrote: post #80
tristor wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no socketable Unified Memory platform. The entire point of this SoC is that it has Unified Memory. The Framework Desktop has a Mini-ITX board, but you MUST use a solderable SoC with HBM stacked memory to get a Unified Memory outcome. For local AI workloads, that's the only part that matters, which is the entire point of wanting 192GB of RAM available on an APU. I like the repairability and modularity of my F…

If this CPU is not socketable by design, why not pick a CPU that is? There are plenty of options. Repairability is more important than raw speed. That is why people pick Framework. It’s not the best machine at everything but it’s easy to repair.

You fundamentally cannot do things on the system you are envisioning that you can do on a Framework Desktop, or DGX Spark, or MBP M5 Max. Simple as that. Repairable modular laptops were a fairly rare thing when Framework came out. A repairable modular desktop is just a normal desktop computer. A desktop computer in a compact form factor that can run AI workloads though is a much rarer thing.

Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#84

Post by mapontosevenths »

esseph wrote: post #69
mapontosevenths wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the RAM producers need more of the same machines that other semi-conductor manufactures need and the suppliers of those seem unable to increase production I suspect that it is very, very profitable for them not to increase production and instead increase prices. This is one of those cases where the free market fails and governments should step-in. IP laws are there to elevate the arts and sciences, not stifle them…

> IP laws are there to elevate the arts and sciences, not stifle them in the name of profit. Hmmmmmmmmm

I mean, that's what the US constitution says very plainly. It does seem to be a pretty unpopular take these days though.

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#85

Post by artisinal »

eigenspace wrote: post #81
artisinal wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is where Framework should have stepped in and said “we as a company value repairability, so we will take the performance hit to make the product easier to repair”

It doesn't work that way. AMD said they simply couldn't do it. It wasn't about taking some modest performance hit, it was that they couldn't make the chip function with modular memory due to signal integrity problems.

Then why not pick a CPU that is socketable? There are dozens of them on the market that Framework could have picked for their Desktop product.

Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#86

Post by artisinal »

tristor wrote: post #83
artisinal wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this CPU is not socketable by design, why not pick a CPU that is? There are plenty of options. Repairability is more important than raw speed. That is why people pick Framework. It’s not the best machine at everything but it’s easy to repair.

You fundamentally cannot do things on the system you are envisioning that you can do on a Framework Desktop, or DGX Spark, or MBP M5 Max. Simple as that. Repairable modular laptops were a fairly rare thing when Framework came out. A repairable modular desktop is just a normal desktop computer. A desktop computer in a compact form factor that can run AI workloads though is a much rarer thing.

My computer with socketed CPU had no issues being a computer. It’s so strange for Framework to make a machine you can’t repair. It’s the Framework Desktop. Why not create the best possible repairable Desktop instead of using some niche CPU soldered to the board? Not everyone has AI workloads. Some people just browse the web a little.

Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#87

Post by izacus »

ethbr1 wrote: post #58
VulgarExigency wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us with feebler minds than you or him, the name is just full of qualifiers that make no sense.

To expand, positional definition of adjectives tends to be a bad marketing scheme. Nobody knows that pro and max mean specific things. If AMD needs to create a full cross-product of their hardware feature set, because they intend to have a SKU for every possible combination, they probably need a better scheme. Say what you want about Celeron/Pentium/i3/i5/i7, but it mostly got the idea across (except on the occasions…

So why do so many of major successful product corporations use this kind of naming scheme?

Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#89

Post by fleventynine »

This machine needs better networking options to be useful, such as built-in 100Gbit QSFP28. There is not enough space between the x4 PCIe slot and the power supply for a NIC to fit, and even if there was, you'd have to cut a hole in the back of the case to get at it.

Re: New Framework Desktop Option with AMD Ryzen AI Max+ Pro 495 and 192GB Memory

#90

Post by tristor »

artisinal wrote: post #86
tristor wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You fundamentally cannot do things on the system you are envisioning that you can do on a Framework Desktop, or DGX Spark, or MBP M5 Max. Simple as that. Repairable modular laptops were a fairly rare thing when Framework came out. A repairable modular desktop is just a normal desktop computer. A desktop computer in a compact form factor that can run AI workloads though is a much rarer thing.

My computer with socketed CPU had no issues being a computer. It’s so strange for Framework to make a machine you can’t repair. It’s the Framework Desktop. Why not create the best possible repairable Desktop instead of using some niche CPU soldered to the board? Not everyone has AI workloads. Some people just browse the web a little.

Can it run a local LLM with 35B+ parameters using GPU acceleration for reasonable token performance? If not, then you're being obtuse.
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