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Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#561

Post by marysol5 »

basilikum wrote: post #295
giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

> I personally know of 1 who took a leak across from a playground at 2am walking home from the bars and was put on the sex offender registry because it was within 500'. You might want to look up if that's actually true. It might be. It might also be a lie to hide the real reason why they are registered.

Everyone knows a guy, who knows a guy, who's dog met a guy

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#562

Post by marysol5 »

Scroll_Swe wrote: post #496
guerrilla wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden we're going to literally have Minority Report style pre-crime registries for potential child molesters. We already have one for potential domestic abusers. Fuck this country. I need to get out of here before it gets worse.

[flagged]

[flagged]

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#563

Post by inemesitaffia »

inigyou wrote: post #432
inemesitaffia wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if that gets extended to If you provide the government a platform to do So, they'll do Y if you wait long enough

Not everything is a slippery slope. Many things are, but you have to prove each specific case, not cite the general existence of slippery slopes.

If you can scan a users device for photos "society" doesn't like, they don't have to compel you to to write new software to scan for images they don't like.

There's a user-company data boundary.

Keep it.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#564

Post by KaiserPro »

marysol5 wrote: post #555
giantg2 wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"360/100k US vs 1200/100k UK" That's the violent crime rate. I do see the 28 was an error. Yes, lower murder rate, but higher violent crime rate.

Lets not forget the UK defines violent crime as any sort of threat, shouting at someone in the street is violent crime. The US defines violent crime as literal murder. Those are no way near comparable.

Yes I should have made that clearer at the start, I deliberately avoided "violent" crime as the stats are very hard to compare like for like.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#565

Post by redeeman »

inigyou wrote: post #490
redeeman wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

thats very very obviously not how it works or was intended. then they could just come up with "rules" that are not laws, and then rules say cannot have arms. all these insane and VERY OBVIOUS attempts to bypass the constitution should result in official doing it be put in jail FOREVER

Who's going to put them in jail? Their best friends?

i didnt say i think its gonna happen, im saying it should happen

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#566

Post by greedo »

Gareth321 wrote: post #548
greedo wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment implies that Hitler seized power despite a lack of popularity. The historical record shows that Hitler was wildly popular in Germany, even up to the end of WW2.

I very clearly provided the exact percentage popularity he had at the height of his democratic rise. Whether you'd like to accurately call that less than a third, or "wildly popular" is I suppose subjective.

You provided the percentage of voters. This is not an accurate proxy for support.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#567

Post by EagnaIonat »

basilikum wrote: post #549
EagnaIonat wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple or whoever maintains that listof hashes from putting things other than child abuse on there, like dissident memes for example. That's the common argument and it's wrong. The hash database is regulated and used worldwide. To get the hashes of what you mention into the database requires numerous people signing off on it. It is also a 1:1 match, not a "dissident said X" type meme match. > It also requires device…

> The hash database is regulated and used worldwide. To get the hashes of what you mention into the database requires numerous people signing off on it. So, it's correct. What you're describing is a policy, not a technical limitation. The technical infrastructure allows exactly that. Policies can and will be changed and bypassed. > It is also a 1:1 match, not a "dissident said X" type meme match. So you can maintain…

> Policies can and will be changed and bypassed.

You should take the time to see how it works.

No singular country can put information in that wouldn't be picked up straight away by other countries. There are 70 countries signed up to it.

> So you can maintain a list of dissident memes just like you can maintain a list of CSAM.

Using hashes as a way to match doesn't scale in the way you describe. So it wouldn't be feasible to do that.

There are certainly approaches that can be taken, but CSAM isn't that.

> What are you talking about?

All major companies (for about 10 years) scan everyone's images/files for CSAM. That is happening now.

Apple came with an approach that would have the CSAM hashing checks on the device.

If your image/video passed then it was encrypted so that no one could decrypt it even on the cloud. If it failed, then it was business as usual and your file was uploaded as it has normally been and scanned.

It would have dramatically reduced server costs and meant that your files were 100% safe on the cloud from the government, instead of what they are now. Everyone lost their mind over it, but were taking news stories as facts when it didn't match the research paper.

> You are just stating this with no facts to back it up against all the evidence to the contrary.

To be fair, you started first and I've yet to see a link from you.

But here is a starting point.

https://www.interpol.int/en/Crimes/Crimes-against-children

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#568

Post by wredcoll »

Scroll_Swe wrote: post #496
guerrilla wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden we're going to literally have Minority Report style pre-crime registries for potential child molesters. We already have one for potential domestic abusers. Fuck this country. I need to get out of here before it gets worse.

[flagged]

I have an ancestor who was born there, it's now my country.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#569

Post by mannanj »

jcgl wrote: post #405
mannanj wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we are closing that gap with AI coding tools. A growing number of people people today can figure out how to run Fable in a co work session, or codex, and that can indeed set up the self-owned backup system for you along with an alternative trustable cloud backup thats not Apple or Google.

Technical people, maybe. Even if we hypothetically grant that vibe-coded backup systems can be trusted, deploying, using, and maintaining are still hurdles. And there’s absolutely no way that’s all tractable for the vast, vast majority of the population. Mind you, an average person probably doesn’t even really know what a server is. And these average people need backups just as much as (probably more than) people tec…

I think that product people are very much doing development with these tools; and trusting, deploying and maintaining them. The vast majority won’t even know the trust, deployment and maintenance challenges that technical people know and so they won’t worry about them and probably never will need to. Anything very risky will be eventually protected by exposure in the training data. Not unlike how you see in lovable like building tools having built in scan tools.

The training data for these mechanisms is growing. As a technical person I deployed a clients site to lovable and now he maintains it. Anything risky? I trust lovable will surface it, and he’s comfortable with additional risk, and platforms like lovable may want to offer contracting help from humans In their platform in The future to help.

Why does someone who says “I pay -$x for Google Drive, how much can we make our own clone for?” need to know what a server is? The natural language doesn’t necessitate the technical jargon.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#570

Post by mannanj »

anticensor wrote: post #424
ipython wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what about an AI generated image using the real face of a minor? That can (I would argue will ) cause real damage to the real child.

That's CSM, not CSAM.

Agreed. I think this answers your question ipython. Do you agree?
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