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Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

ishmael.textualize.io

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Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#91

Post by toast0 »

the_lucifer wrote: post #70
throwawayffffas wrote: post #22

Cut and Paste is three operations. Cut is two operations copy and delete, copy is never undone by undo it should not be undone when you cut either. I cut, undo, ..., undo, and paste multiple times a day. It's a feature not a bug. > Cut & Paste is not atomic Yes because it's two different actions. What does "Ghost Cut" do if you paste multiple times? Paste the cut text first and then what? The previous thing in your c…

> Cut and paste is a poor analogy in the file explorer, what the file explorer does is a move, "cutting" fills the first parameter and "pasting" fills the second. Hence the greying out and not doing anything until you paste. There is no clipboard for the filesystem. Also in the file browser it's extremely unlikely you would want to paste into multiple places, something not true in text editors. Yep, which is why the…

I dunno, in my preferred text editor (joe), i set up a selection, and I can delete it if I want, or go where I want it and do copy or move the selected region.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#92

Post by ashdksnndck »

nkrisc wrote: post #55
jubilanti wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you used a clipboard manager? There are tons that you can configure with notifications and indicators, so you don't have to that.

Having to install yet more software seems worse than the problem you’re suggesting it should solve.

At least it would save you a keystroke every time, if it enables you to switch from cut+undo to copy.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#93

Post by Dylan16807 »

Mogzol wrote: post #34
blt wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really natural! - make a bunch of edits - decide I don't like all of them - copy the part I want to keep - undo a bunch - paste the good part This is copy, not cut, but it wouldn't work if the clipboard state was part of the undo system.

The article isn't arguing that clipboard state should be part of the undo system, it is arguing that cut shouldn't touch clipboard state. In the "Side effects" section they mention if you want the contents to go to the clipboard, then you should use copy instead of cut.

If it doesn't change the state how do I cut and paste between programs? And is 'paste' now using the clipboard half the time but not the other half?

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#94

Post by Dylan16807 »

ryandrake wrote: post #78
foo12bar wrote: post #69

What I'd like seen addressed is the insistence of every app trying it's best to include formatting information, even so far as to include table cells formatting data in the clipboard. I've found copying this format info useful maybe twice(?) in my 50+ year life and otherwise it is a huge PITA. Including having email clients crash or refuse to properly undo weird table formats that unintentionally get pasted over. Ins…

Some applications provide a "paste without formatting" that is distinct from "paste" but often that one removes things like hyperlinks, which you generally want to keep. The "paste" idiom has been thoroughly stressed to the limit. Should "paste" paste just text? Should it include text color? Should it in crude text background color? Should it include typeface? Should it include text size? Should it include attached m…

"paste as markdown" would be interesting but no I don't actually want to keep hyperlinks when I'm pasting without formatting.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#95

Post by totetsu »

rpdillon wrote: post #42
rickydroll wrote: post #35

Cut and paste is a UI failure; it only works kinda if you have fully functional hands. If your hands don't work right, or you have tremors or other mobility impairments, your chances of succeeding with cut and paste drop off significantly. The Emacs mark-and-point UI works for everyone: fully functional hands, partially functioning hands, or even speech recognition. It also solves the problem of copy, cut, and paste…

Reading through the post, it was clear that the author wasn't very familiar with Emacs. I'm a huge fan of the undo model of Emacs, especially with tools like undo-tree (although cycling through with M-y is basically as good for my use cases). The "replace the clipboard" bug doesn't exist because Emacs has a killring (I'm such a fan I bought killring.org years ago!), and the "text reflows" problem is completely solved…

>every word processor, code editor, and browser text area you've ever used. yes that should have been the author saying "..I've ever used"

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#97

Post by lovich »

> 2. Cut reflows The second flaw is that a cut reflows the document. A cut and paste is almost always for the purposes of moving text, and yet the instant I cut, the text reflows and I have to locate the point where I want to paste all over again. A tiny cognitive burden perhaps, but I'd argue an unnecessary one.

This is ridiculous. When I cut something in real life I expect it to be gone. Of course it reflows after that operation.

I don’t have a problem with this new operation but “redirect” is probably a better name, and not even a perfect one, compared to “Ghost Cut”

Cutting means removing, hence “being cut from the team”. This author is either having a hard time with English or being bombastic to try and sell their idea.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#98

Post by Noumenon72 »

tectec wrote: post #2

I don't think I would like this. He mentions Excel does something similar and Excel is my least favourite app to cut/copy/paste in.

My Excel cut-and-paste workflow is:

* Copy the text

* Paste the text

* Go back and delete the copied text

because regular cut and paste breaks all the formulas that reference where I'm pasting into. They should have kept normal cut-and-paste and made Ctrl+Shift+(plus) do their special paste.

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