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Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

ishmael.textualize.io

61–70 of 162 posts

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#61
post #17

Agree accidentally clobbering the clipboard is super annoying. Clipboard history apps are a godsend. Like Paste on Mac, or Windows has it built in.

The Mac now has a clipboard history as well, it's just a bit awkward. You can open Spotlight with ⌘Space, and within Spotlight open the clipboard manager with ⌘4.

Ya that’s too awkward. Clipboard history needs to be ⌘+Shift+V or I’d never use it

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#62
first, _DONT_ overwrite standard behavior as default; opencode is doing this. When I get in the flow, it all breaks when I want to copy something and it claims it's copying, but no, it's in putty or whatever and it's just a damn line.

issue here: https://github.com/anomalyco/opencode/issues/13984

ALWAYS default to regular behavior unless it's something you know exactly is going to go correctly.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#64
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I disagree that the cited behavior is defective. But I respect his pointing-out of the shortcomings and offering other options. I find myself using the clipboard-erasure "defect" somewhat frequently to cut something to the clipboard, and then undoing the change and using the clipboard contents. And this is specifically useful in a way that merely copying isn't... but at the moment I can't remember why, or whethe…

It's really natural! - make a bunch of edits - decide I don't like all of them - copy the part I want to keep - undo a bunch - paste the good part This is copy, not cut, but it wouldn't work if the clipboard state was part of the undo system.

Exactly, you've nailed it.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#65

The Finder has an interesting take on this: copy a file with ⌘C, then move it somewhere with ⌥⌘V. This is much nicer than the Windows Explorer's CTRL+X and CTRL+V, where the user is unsure what happens when they never paste the file.

What does happen if you never paste the file?

It feels to me like cut/copy (in the clipboard manipulation sense)/paste are nonsensical operations on files in the first place.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#66
Copy and Paste too, and its because if you hit Ctrl + C (copy) by mistake, when you actually meant to hit CTRL+V did you know, that Teams, Discord, etc will copy a completely empty text-input box AND WIPE YOUR PASTE HISTORY WITH IT?

This is why copy and paste is broken for so many years, because devs at these beautiful companies, decided to let you wipe your end-user's clipboard when chatInputText.length === 0 or whatever. I noticed people having consistent issues with copy and paste when Teams became more prevalent, and it made no sense, until I realized.

If you work for one of these chat companies, for the love of GOD make an internal ticket, this is embarrassing.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#68

Cut and Paste is three operations. Cut is two operations copy and delete, copy is never undone by undo it should not be undone when you cut either. I cut, undo, ..., undo, and paste multiple times a day. It's a feature not a bug. > Cut & Paste is not atomic Yes because it's two different actions. What does "Ghost Cut" do if you paste multiple times? Paste the cut text first and then what? The previous thing in your c…

>paste multiple times Because you're trying to 'copy' it? This feels baby-duck-y. No given mental model is more right than another. There's already not even a consistent model, because: >Cut is copy and delete So copy and delete! Or, in Vim and Emacs, just delete!

> Or, in Vim and Emacs, just delete!

Off topic, but that’s actually my biggest pet peeve vim. You copy text one place to overwrite some other text, you delete the existing text and they you go to paste and… the buffer has been overwritten. It makes so much more sense to require users to hit the obvious, composable ‘yd’ in the cases they want to copy than an arcane incantation in the cases they want to overwrite text.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#69
What I'd like seen addressed is the insistence of every app trying it's best to include formatting information, even so far as to include table cells formatting data in the clipboard. I've found copying this format info useful maybe twice(?) in my 50+ year life and otherwise it is a huge PITA. Including having email clients crash or refuse to properly undo weird table formats that unintentionally get pasted over. Instead, I have to paste to an open editor in a terminal window and then do another copy and paste to the destination to most reliably disable this.

Re: Ghost Cut – Or why Cut and Paste is broken everywhere

#70

Cut and Paste is three operations. Cut is two operations copy and delete, copy is never undone by undo it should not be undone when you cut either. I cut, undo, ..., undo, and paste multiple times a day. It's a feature not a bug. > Cut & Paste is not atomic Yes because it's two different actions. What does "Ghost Cut" do if you paste multiple times? Paste the cut text first and then what? The previous thing in your c…

> Cut and paste is a poor analogy in the file explorer, what the file explorer does is a move, "cutting" fills the first parameter and "pasting" fills the second. Hence the greying out and not doing anything until you paste. There is no clipboard for the filesystem. Also in the file browser it's extremely unlikely you would want to paste into multiple places, something not true in text editors.

Yep, which is why the dislike for macOS's finder workflow of copy a file: ⌘+C (irrespective of cut/move/copy) -> decide at destination: ⌘+⌥+V (move) or ⌘+V (paste) confuses me. It's the best intuition imo.

Weirdly, Windows does the same thing which doesn't garner enough hate as it also excludes the associated good UX. Cut fades a file out in the explorer (akin to this "Ghost cut" concept) then a paste moves it (so you don't end up losing files).

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