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Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

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Re: Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

#51

Post by geuis »

Varelion wrote: post #4

A little irrelevant, but I need to vent about something MUD adjacent. I really wish MUDs were still a thing. The text-based roleplaying communities were largely swallowed by Discord, where as before they existed scattered over proboards, jcink, and a few others. Discord, being the imperfect text platform, limits the text and leaves most interaction limited by awkward formatting. To boot, even when a better ecosystem…

They aren't all gone. E.g. this is a mud I've played on occasionally for the last 30 years: https://theforestsedge.com/

Re: Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

#52

Post by outofpaper »

iepathos wrote: post #20
Varelion wrote: post #4

A little irrelevant, but I need to vent about something MUD adjacent. I really wish MUDs were still a thing. The text-based roleplaying communities were largely swallowed by Discord, where as before they existed scattered over proboards, jcink, and a few others. Discord, being the imperfect text platform, limits the text and leaves most interaction limited by awkward formatting. To boot, even when a better ecosystem…

MUDs never disappeared. People stopped finding them engaging enough to use. Blaming Discord reverses the causality. MUDs lost engagement long before disco was created. People congregate on disco because it offers a more compelling social interface, even if it lacks the depth of a persistent game world. The opportunity I'd draw from this isn’t to convince people to return to older and less engaging interfaces. It’s to…

Is your autocomplete passing you disco instead of Discord and you're just going with it? Or are you implying that before the creation of disco music people had grown tired of MUDs?

Re: Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

#54

Post by ButlerianJihad »

I don't understand this article. In fact I even read the entire whitepaper and I don't understand it.

You didn't use "a MUD"; you used a very limited "MUD-style environment". This is not a MUD. Your headline, your article, your whitepaper is a lie. Your "MUD" didn't originate in the 1970s; you coulnd't even be arsed to include its source code!

I was at first mystified when you couldn't be clear about what genre or species of MUD software you're using. There are many types of MUDs out there, and you used exactly none of them. You used some sort of bespoke, vibe-coded, constrained environment that is not a MUD.

Shame on you and your research. Shame on you for falsely capitalizing on the "MUD" term. Flagging this post.

Re: Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

#55

Post by munk-a »

kingbirdy wrote: post #49
munk-a wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an ongoing project doing this (that launches this weekend I believe) to revive a MUD called Shadows of Isildur. I think a lot of effort has been put into the new changes to the codebase to bring QoL features that a modern audience would expect while keeping the bones of the game the same. I'm not certain how it will fare as, to be honest, MUDs take an inordinate amount of time to really groove into and immer…

> There is an ongoing project doing this (that launches this weekend I believe) to revive a MUD called Shadows of Isildur Interesting, could you share more info? I couldn't find anything on Google. I played a fair amount of SOI back in the day and it'd be fun to start over on a fresh server.

play.shadowsofisildur.com:4500 - if you'd like (it isn't on the old domain anymore) there's also a discord that I'm a bit hesitant to link to where all the discussion is taking place that has a lot of the old folks hanging around and nostalgifying.

Re: Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

#56

Post by newobj »

Varelion wrote: post #4

A little irrelevant, but I need to vent about something MUD adjacent. I really wish MUDs were still a thing. The text-based roleplaying communities were largely swallowed by Discord, where as before they existed scattered over proboards, jcink, and a few others. Discord, being the imperfect text platform, limits the text and leaves most interaction limited by awkward formatting. To boot, even when a better ecosystem…

They're still a thing

Re: Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

#57

Post by CTDOCodebases »

Varelion wrote: post #6
Davisb135 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you. You've also got more / easier competition. IIRC, MUDs peaked in the mid-late 90s. MMOs were really the death knell, then the explosion of other types of games, mobile games, then to your point things like Discord. One adjacent project we're exploring for the future is if you took all of the current understanding of game design and mechanics with modern AI functionality, knowledge bases, etc, and bui…

I honestly worry that the relevance of text-based systems is largely tied with literacy and how it interacts with the player's imagination -- something largely in decline, at least in the US.

It's not just imagination the relevance is also tied to focus and attention. I have multiple friends who claim that the reason they don't read is because are "visual learners" .

The real truth is they have a 30 second attention span and can't finish a page without daydreaming so in order to stay focussed they need a YouTube video than contains the same information but with constant visual changes.

Re: Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

#59

Post by stavros »

Kiro wrote: post #43
munk-a wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A MUD exists as a platform for creative writing - introducing LLMs into one would deprive it of its primary function.

Most people played MUDs for the grind. Levels and loot. They care about the story as much as you care about it in Path of Exile.

Even though I didn't play a MUD for the text, it's entirely false to say that the text didn't add a lot. The writing made or broke the game, since it was all text-based.

Re: Can a MUD evaluate LLMs? A $99 proof of concept

#60

Post by StanislavPetrov »

Varelion wrote: post #4

A little irrelevant, but I need to vent about something MUD adjacent. I really wish MUDs were still a thing. The text-based roleplaying communities were largely swallowed by Discord, where as before they existed scattered over proboards, jcink, and a few others. Discord, being the imperfect text platform, limits the text and leaves most interaction limited by awkward formatting. To boot, even when a better ecosystem…

>I really wish MUDs were still a thing.

They aren't as popular as they once were, but they are still out there. One of the hardest-core OG muds, Armageddon Mud (which was based on the Dark Sun world) recently went down, but the founders have been working on a new reboot with a totally new code base. Looks interesting (I played the original but have no connection with the MUD itself). They are aiming to launch BETA in the relatively near future if anyone wants to check it out.

https://www.zalanthas.org/

There are also some OG muds still chugging along after 30+ years, like the hardcore PVP mud Duris:Land of Bloodlust. The player base has dwindled mightily over the years but people still play and it is a load of fun to explore, if MUDs are your thing, as it incredibly expansive having been in active development for decades.

https://www.durismud.com/

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