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Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

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Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#271

Post by treis »

e40 wrote: post #70
redlewel wrote: post #30

I think this is because the demand is so extreme for datacenters now that companies are building them in a manner that disrupts the environment around them. The newer ones are using on-site generators that are insanely loud and require multiples more power than datacenters have historically needed. For a rack with traditional servers with just RAM/CPU/Drives, 5kW is sufficient in most cases. When you have racks that…

> I think this is because the demand is so extreme for datacenters now Point to _any_ analysis that says the current building boom is anything but speculation. xAI is renting out their DC space. I think I read that Google is, too. DC buildout is purely a gold rush. A play to be the one left standing after all the weaker players die.

Inference is profitable and demand can't be met. They might eventually overshoot the mark but it hasn't happened yet and doesn't appear to be on the horizon.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#272

Post by duxup »

We built data centers for decades without issue.

One I used to service frequently is actually surrounded by a large area of green-space, trees, marsh area, wildlife. The houses that border it are highly desirable as you effectively have an extension of a massive yard and great views relative to the suburban area surrounding it.

Somehow things changed and it's a bit surreal.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#273

Post by Casteil »

chasd00 wrote: post #246
Casteil wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No one ever cared about DCs before now. Fewer people cared, sure.. but it's because until recently they weren't eclipsing power consumption of extremely energy-heavy industries, noticeably driving local residential energy prices up. They also weren't so heavily noise polluting nor were they typically built in places where their noise pollution affected so many people.

where does the noise pollution come from? GPU fans? What's more noisy about a DC filled with CPUs and GPUs than a DC filled with just CPUs. I can imagine generators being noisy but that wouldn't be anything different than regular data centers. Also, so few DCs for the AI buildout are actually online where are the noise measurements taken from? I understand if people don't want a DC near them i just don't understand w…

The difference in noise pollution comes from power density & power generation, if they're doing so on site. The power demand (and resulting waste heat) absolutely eclipses that of data centers of olde.

If they're not generating power on site & creating noise/consuming local natural gas resources, they're guzzling grid power and almost certainly contributing to electrical rate increases that affect residential customers disproportionately.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#274

Post by treis »

vel0city wrote: post #161
chasd00 wrote: post #7

No one ever cared about DCs before now. I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. Ironically, There’s enough issues with the DC buildout going on that even with 100% public opinion support it would still be significantly delayed. The behind the meter power generation isn’t going well. There’s only so many gas fired turbines on th…

I made this comment a little bit ago, I'll share it again: I think the biggest change in public sentiment in datacenters is a reaction to the extreme scale they're being deployed at these days. They're really vastly unlike datacenters of the past. The power densities are so much higher, they're so much larger, and they're getting vastly more environmental waivers and tax subsidies than ever before. A quiet, average-s…

>This is also a datacenter. I imagine just about everyone living nearby knows its a datacenter. https://maps.app.goo.gl/wR4NgcWQVhJAy5Gy6

That's not much bigger than the two warehouses next to it.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#275

Post by quickthrowman »

98codes wrote: post #182
rconti wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the average person actually knows anything concrete about them. They're a proxy for peoples' sense of powerlessness about what's going on around them. Skyrocketing electricity prices, the sense that elected officials aren't looking out for their interests, job losses, etc. They're a convenient proxy for many disparate concerns because they represent all of those things in one way or another.

> I don't think the average person actually knows anything concrete about them. The average person around them knows quite a bit about the noise level, and how far it carries. They're starting to learn about the effect consistent noise at that level has on their mental & physical well-being as well.

The average person is familiar with sound mitigation enclosures for generators and chillers? I kinda doubt that.

If noise regulations are in place where the data center is being built, companies that make chillers and generators will sell you an enclosure that reduces the sound level to comply with sound regulations. It’s not like these data centers are the first buildings ever to have a lot of generators and chillers installed, all non-AI data centers have plenty of each.

If you live in an unincorporated area and a data center moves in and there’s no sound regulations, then they can do whatever they want, but that’s the risk of living in an unincorporated area.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#276

Post by RajT88 »

watwut wrote: post #209
RajT88 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but the thing is - those guys aren't using the majority of data center capacity out there. The Anti-DC crowd doesn't appreciate that the surveillance state is coming with our without all these DC's being built. That is going to get hosted some where, some way. The fix is regulatory and political.

They cant make regulations. They have only limited political power, Karp and Thiel certainly have more. So, what you say amounts to "it is true, but do nothing at all". What they do is "do the thing we can do". You, CEOs and this crowd all agree. It ia just that some think it is a good thing (CEOs), anything except impossible is pointless (you).

You're putting words in my mouth. Don't.

The government has the kind of power needed to rein in all of these privacy issues by regulating big tech. It will be difficult, but more difficult things have been achieved in our lifetime. Join the EFF. Contact your congress people.

What I'm actually saying is the anti-DC people are trying to solve a societal level problem only peripherally related to the thing they are trying to ban at a local level. That seems a lot harder than getting congress to care about privacy issues.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#277

Post by RajT88 »

lightedman wrote: post #228
RajT88 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're building a mass of DC's near me as well in northern IL (not quite as many as by you). I see a lot of weird stuff on social media - people inactive for years all of a sudden becoming super-activists and posting non-stop anti-DC content. Nearly identical content to what's being pushed by a bunch of faceless accounts named like "Water4All","Nature Reign" - something vaguely environmental sounding. Talking points…

"there's no such thing as a closed loop system" That's not incorrect though; you're still needing to shed the heat energy SOMEWHERE. Thermodynamics alone dictates that basic fact. You may not waste the cooling solution but all that excessive GPU heat is going to need to go somewhere - and the only place it ultimately goes is right into the environment. Ever stand a bit away from a campfire because you got too warm, o…

Except that's not what the article is about.

What it's about is this:

This one data center in Ohio claimed to be a closed loop system, but then dumped their blowdown directly into the water table or something and now everyone's tap water is weird.

That is miles away from how your average "closed loop" system operates. There should be accountability for DC operators, but that's not what people take away from the article. What people take away from the article is, "All the data center companies lie, and are the worst sorts of damn dirty polluters and they will ruin your town".

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#278

Post by quickthrowman »

whalesalad wrote: post #128

I would flip my bitch switch if a datacenter was stood up near me, where I could hear it. I am on 5 acres in rural Michigan surrounded by peace and quiet. I specifically came here for this reason. At the same time, I understand that we need datacenters. And tbh, Michigan is under-served in this space (ex, most of my queries thru the Cloudflare network have to go to Chicago first), and I wish we had more. But not clos…

> Also thoughts of mine recently: why are we not doing subterranean datacenters, why are we not doing tall/skinny skyscraper like datacenters (versus enormous sprawling warehouse-style).

Because it costs an order of magnitude more money to build underground or build a skyscraper than it does it build a precast concrete tilt-up warehouse.

You can build a single story warehouse building with as large of a floor plate as you want, it could be hundreds of square miles if you didn’t need any utilities inside of it. Obviously you do need utilities which limit the overall building size because of things like voltage drop, pump sizing, etc.

Excavating that much earth, building a concrete underground structure, and then covering it, or erecting a steel and concrete tower is much more work than having precast wall sections shipped in from the prefab plant which are then tilted into place with cranes and secured to the concrete slab foundation.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#279

Post by HWR_14 »

narcraft wrote: post #152
vitally3643 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I see you're complaining about society and yet you participate in society! Very interesting! I am very smart." This is not a good or reasoned take. People organize where the other people are because that's how you get the most people. It is nor hypocrisy to use Facebook as a platform to organize protests against other tech companies. Just as it is not hypocrisy to criticize the society you live within. This is a ver…

It is a good or reasoned take (but perhaps not both!). There is some sliver of hypocrisy in condemning tech companies wholesale while enjoying their products. But just because something is hypocritical, it doesn't invalidate all related criticisms. If you don't like the negative byproducts of a good or service, that's a perfectly valid gripe. But those byproducts are a necessary consequence of the status quo. In orde…

Are they enjoying the tech companies products? They are using them, but that's a different question.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#280

Post by linksnapzz »

dylan604 wrote: post #123
linksnapzz wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are industrial bakeries that burn that much natural gas (powerwise); although the bakery probably smells better.

I can attest for the smells better. Now, I'm left wondering which smells worse, an AI datacenter or a large beer brewery. As a kid, we had a Mrs. Baird's bread bakery which was in the heart of town that students would take field trips to see (which is no longer there and is now apartments). On the other side of town is a Budweiser plant, and it's infamous for being so odorific but it is located way the hell out there…

Yeah; an industrial brewery could smell off at times. But the ppl going on about datacenters as though it’s like a pulp mill or iron foundry relocating to your neighborhood are a little much.
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