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Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

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Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#91

Post by owebmaster »

nixon_why69 wrote: post #12
chasd00 wrote: post #7

No one ever cared about DCs before now. I think there’s a lot of social media influence from nation state competitors going on to try and slow SOTA development in the US. Ironically, There’s enough issues with the DC buildout going on that even with 100% public opinion support it would still be significantly delayed. The behind the meter power generation isn’t going well. There’s only so many gas fired turbines on th…

I think its a proxy for general populist sentiment. "These AI people are getting rich selling unicorn farts while I'm on the same pay and everything is more expensive, fuck them".

Are you sure that you think what you described is "populist sentiment"?

Weirdly, it sounds like populist sentiment.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#92

Post by paulzack »

mikestew wrote: post #85
maerF0x0 wrote: post #65

IMO NIMB should be illegal, so long as the builder meets standards. Maybe those standards should rise to include ambient noise requirements, heat dissipation, capital contributions to water/electricity supply, additional tax burden points (for land use without, maybe?). But I also feel there needs to be an assertion that if you own the land it's your property and you're free to do most things with it, safely and poli…

This is about property rights and freedoms. Your property rights stop where my ears are. Or I have the freedom to not listen to your gas turbine. Or however one wishes to flip that on its head. Whether you own the property or not, that property isn’t in a vacuum.

[dead]

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#93

Post by adamrezich »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #88
adamrezich wrote: post #74

The other day I was talking with two friends—one programmer, one musician, both of fairly conservative political persuasion—and the topic of “AI data centers” came up. I said something to the effect of, “y'know, all that talk about how they just use all up all the water from wherever they're built is total propaganda nonsense, right?” and both were genuinely taken aback by this statement. As far as they were concerne…

Your two friends are factually correct. You somehow misinterpret how much water they consume. https://spectrum.ieee.org/ai-water-usage

The energy grid use seems far more worrisome than water use. Why would anyone build an AI data center in a specifically “water-stressed region”?

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#94

Post by quickthrowman »

grim_io wrote: post #35

Your dad's data centers are very different to the new GPU focused beasts. The AI data centers consume a lot more power, and thus generate a lot more heat(equals cooling noise) per square meter. This is the reason why it's a new problem right now. Edit: autocorrect used breasts instead of beasts.

Why is that a problem? It might raise the temp within a few hundred feet of the chillers by 0.5-1F which is substantially less than an urban heat island temp delta vs surrounding rural land.

A sane municipality will require sound mitigation on generators, chillers, and other loud equipment. Sure, there are shitty places that don’t take care of their citizens that will let you run natural gas turbines to generate power, but it’s possible to contain the bad effects of data centers with local and state regulations.

I’ll take a data center that evaporates water to replace the iron casting foundry in my neighborhood any day.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#95

Post by izacus »

strictnein wrote: post #58
mindslight wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Folks care because their bottom line is impacted in a time when it’s already hard to make ends meet every month due to rising costs of food, gas, and utilities, not because of some unnamed boogeyman in the form of a “nation state competitor” While agreeing with where you're coming from, including this, it is also worth nothing that there is truth to what you're rejecting as well. Our longstanding unsolved domestic…

Exactly. Russia has been doing it for decades and it would be foolish to assume China didn't learn from them. Thomas Rid's "Active Measures" covers this in detail, and it's somewhat maddening to read, because it details how much of the civil strife we've experienced that was exacerbated by their actions. https://www.amazon.com/Active-Measures-History-Disinformatio...

Blaming Russia (and China) in most cases is a cheap cop out to try to deflect, hide and minimize the actual grievances of people living in USA.

Yes, there's propaganda and most of it doesn't reach the Americans. It's downright insulting to claim their hurts are something that countries on the other side of the world invented.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#96

Post by tsunamifury »

nemomarx wrote: post #61
mindcandy wrote: post #55

I find what people want from the data center build-out is pretty reasonable: 1. Don't build loud machines across the street from someone's house. 2. Don't drive up water/electricity bills by pulling from the municipal grid. 3. Don't burn the earth with CO2. 4. Don't facilitate techno-fascist surveillance. 5. Pay a lot of taxes. But, when I see people complain about data centers, I usually see a spiral of rage-bait ba…

Just require them to also pay for a new local power plant with the capacity to cover them before they get building permits, honestly. Maybe say they can't qualify for tax breaks too?

That would slow the expansion, its cheaper and easier and faster to just steal power from the local communities and then gaslight them.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#97

Post by ecommerceguy »

redlewel wrote: post #30

I think this is because the demand is so extreme for datacenters now that companies are building them in a manner that disrupts the environment around them. The newer ones are using on-site generators that are insanely loud and require multiples more power than datacenters have historically needed. For a rack with traditional servers with just RAM/CPU/Drives, 5kW is sufficient in most cases. When you have racks that…

Is there really demand for 4000 plus data centers? I have a feeling that's shooting a bit above the mark (10x).

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#98

Post by vitally3643 »

Aurornis wrote: post #71
yoyohello13 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My take is that people feel powerless to really do anything against these massive tech companies. This is the only tangible way they can fight back.

I might believe that if the protests weren't being organized on Facebook and then posted to YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok. It's more like garbage dumps. People don't want to moderate their production of garbage, they just don't want any consequences of it to be too close to their house.

"I see you're complaining about society and yet you participate in society! Very interesting! I am very smart."

This is not a good or reasoned take. People organize where the other people are because that's how you get the most people. It is nor hypocrisy to use Facebook as a platform to organize protests against other tech companies. Just as it is not hypocrisy to criticize the society you live within.

This is a very stupid observation made by people who can't be bothered to consider the realities of life away from their keyboard.

Re: Most Americans say "not in my backyard" to AI data centers

#100

Post by grim_io »

quickthrowman wrote: post #94
grim_io wrote: post #35

Your dad's data centers are very different to the new GPU focused beasts. The AI data centers consume a lot more power, and thus generate a lot more heat(equals cooling noise) per square meter. This is the reason why it's a new problem right now. Edit: autocorrect used breasts instead of beasts.

Why is that a problem? It might raise the temp within a few hundred feet of the chillers by 0.5-1F which is substantially less than an urban heat island temp delta vs surrounding rural land. A sane municipality will require sound mitigation on generators, chillers, and other loud equipment. Sure, there are shitty places that don’t take care of their citizens that will let you run natural gas turbines to generate powe…

It's not about the heat radiating from the data center, it's about the noise generated trying to cool the beast.

The power usage is massive, and that's still a very much limited resource for which everyone competes for.

Adding to your edit: Would you feel the same about adding an AI data center on top of the iron casting foundry you already have to deal with?

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