i have information Anthropic distilled thousands of books, articles, etc ... with their author consent.
“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
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Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#372Kimi K3 was released July 16, Fable ban was lifted on July 1 but access was still limited. How did Moonshot "distil" a huge model in such short time and still had time to run the benchmarks and do the usual release thingies? I think Anthropic is desperate to stop foreign competition and the administration is happy to help because they too are heavily invested in these companies
It looks like these frontier-model companies don't really monitor their systems. Like OpenAI not realizing that it is their own AI which is attacking HuggingFace.
How does that connect with @throwa356262's argument?
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#373I have information that Anthropic distilled the internet for Fable
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#374Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is incredibly important to whether the US can maintain its AI lead. If foreign competition is closing the gap only by distillation, then the frontier labs can focus on preventing distillation and maintain their lead that way. US dominance is also important for approaches to safety, especially political approaches. If the frontier models are all US-based, safety might be tackled via internal US policy. If other cou…
Do Americans even believe that US policy is likely to steer development in a way that’s safe and beneficial for humanity? The rest of the world certainly doesn’t. The US currently seems to primarily use their superpower status to be the world’s number one shit disturber and geopolitical antagonist. I don’t think China’s necessarily any better, but I’d rather have the most powerful models be open rather than under the…
>Do Americans even believe that US policy is likely to steer development in a way that’s safe and beneficial for humanity?
No, no we do not.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#375Does this matter? Distillation is not illegal by every definition of the word. There are millions of samples available on huggingface and models explicitely trained on output produced by fable. There has been no action taken against them. Another example is that it appears that the upper limit of what you can do is ultimately dependent on people working on the model, otherwise grok would be a LOT more competitive pre…
Perhaps even more importantly, the current frontier LLM models are self-admittedly the product of enormous quantities of copyright infringement and even less savory inputs, so calling them out for distilling the fruit of that tainted tree reads as highly hypocritical at best.
No - distillation is not data inputs.
Raw materials vs. Value add.
They are different things, like ore and metal.
Distillation is a new thing we need to understand, it's probably closer to IP than not.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#376K3 frequently refers to itself as Claude in reasoning when instructed to play a role.
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Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#377Earlier quoted context omitted.
Closed-source models have to deal with the current frontier being heavily regulated. Fable, at its old level, was "too good" to be released and they had to add an additional safety layer to sanitize the outputs. Lowering the quality of the models so they are safer and more steerable has been something all the closed-source models have been doing for a while, a requirement that many open source models don't need to de…
I recommend reading some of their research it's honestly astonishing how intelligent some of their solutions are. Kimi specifically relies heavily on reasoning traces which is largely due to their training strategy and will perform poorly when thrown into a conversation from another model. Another fun advancement is that they simply ctrl+c ctrl+v'd attention which means that the model can steer where to look in the c…
You still left out that it doesn't matter anymore, just like Anthropic/Facebook/OpenAI only really needed to read massive amounts of copyrighted data only once (and of course, they all did this illegally, which makes their current complaints more than a little ...). Once they have a large model trained on the data, they can just retrieve reasoning traces and copyrighted data from the previous model. In fact that is a training technique long used because it has better results that directly training on the original data.
In other words: even if the US (somehow) denies them access to the current OpenAI/Anthropic models, they'll be able to improve based on what they already have.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#378Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn’t matter. Distillation is impossible to stop. They could release an extension that intercepts requests and in return gives you a discount like Honey and get the same data.
> Distillation is impossible to stop Lots of things are impossible or very difficult to stop completely but measures can be taken to reduce their prevalence.
Sure, but the problem is that it hurts legit people too.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#379Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I agree on a moral level, I think there is a distinction to be made. Training a SOTA model takes a huge amount of resources and expertise so the people doing the training are adding a lot of value along the way. I think this is much less true for distillation (which is kind of the whole point). ed: to clarify, I totally agree that a huge chunk of the value in LLMs is coming from the source material. My point wa…
I like this comment because its argument only makes sense if you assume that the entire world's output of books and art did not require a huge amount of resources and expertise to make, nor did it add any value. It's the most CS-major take ever!
This is a misrepresentation though.
The LLM output, is not the same as the input - there is value add.
Of course works used as raw inputs to LLMs required work and are reasonably subject to IP concerns - but they are different.
It's possible that the LLM makers 'owe' the content creators that created the content they used to make their products - it's an interesting but separate question.
We could very well end up where content IP is protected, LLM output is not and visa versa with reasonable legal founding, doubtful but plausible.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#380Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps even more importantly, the current frontier LLM models are self-admittedly the product of enormous quantities of copyright infringement and even less savory inputs, so calling them out for distilling the fruit of that tainted tree reads as highly hypocritical at best.
No - distillation is not data inputs. Raw materials vs. Value add. They are different things, like ore and metal. Distillation is a new thing we need to understand, it's probably closer to IP than not.
The "data inputs" were also, very much, somebody's "value added" IP.
We're talking about things like text people wrote, not some kind of raw data floating out in the ether.