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“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
361–370 of 742 posts
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#362How much credible, provable evidence? None really.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#363Commenters are overlooking the significance of this information and posting emotional reactions based on perceptions of fairness or feelings of schadenfreude. The economic viability of Anthropic and OpenAI rely on their being able to charge more for model access than their R&D and inference costs. If the market price for SOTA model access drops below that level, then these businesses will have to decide whether to co…
It doesn’t matter. Distillation is impossible to stop. They could release an extension that intercepts requests and in return gives you a discount like Honey and get the same data.
> Distillation is impossible to stop
Lots of things are impossible or very difficult to stop completely but measures can be taken to reduce their prevalence.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#364Earlier quoted context omitted.
I do agree that two wrongs don't make a right, the terms of service generally gives cooperation the power to sever the contract, but it does not make things illegal in the literal sense. The illegality usually comes from widescale fraud which includes accessing services you are banned from accessing. When I said "Does this matter?" I specially meant that distillation in itself, the data you get from distillation is f…
> The illegality usually comes from widescale fraud which includes accessing services you are banned from accessing. Agree, and this is exactly what Anthropic is alleging. > data you get from distillation is first and foremost not owned by anthropic nor is it copyrightable. If a user willingly gives up their anthropic reasoning data/traces that is 100% legal no matter what the "terms of service" say as it's not enfor…
This is mostly just to reiterate myself as the original question was "Does this matter?"
Everything else is simply justifying why it shouldn't, the specifics don't really matter as there is no legal framework to stop china from continuing to distill models and anthropic has proven they cannot use software solutions to stop it either as distillation is still a problem. But I do still believe it wouldn't hold up in court either way as stopping companies from generating training data which was trained on the entire human knowledge corpus is just stealing from thieves and making it 'open' once again so the argument only gets weaker.
edit: to add, the mickey mouse / nyc was because anthropic trained on LICENSED works, not apple to oranges. The original work it was reciting was licensed and not licensed BY anthropic.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#365Does this matter? Distillation is not illegal by every definition of the word. There are millions of samples available on huggingface and models explicitely trained on output produced by fable. There has been no action taken against them. Another example is that it appears that the upper limit of what you can do is ultimately dependent on people working on the model, otherwise grok would be a LOT more competitive pre…
Perhaps even more importantly, the current frontier LLM models are self-admittedly the product of enormous quantities of copyright infringement and even less savory inputs, so calling them out for distilling the fruit of that tainted tree reads as highly hypocritical at best.
No, they settled that yesterday, so all is forgotten. Press releases were queued for today so just in the nick of time.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
While I agree on a moral level, I think there is a distinction to be made. Training a SOTA model takes a huge amount of resources and expertise so the people doing the training are adding a lot of value along the way. I think this is much less true for distillation (which is kind of the whole point). ed: to clarify, I totally agree that a huge chunk of the value in LLMs is coming from the source material. My point wa…
I like this comment because its argument only makes sense if you assume that the entire world's output of books and art did not require a huge amount of resources and expertise to make, nor did it add any value. It's the most CS-major take ever!
I don't think that's what it's saying at all. It's saying that there's a level of creativity in model creation that isn't present in distillation.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#367Earlier quoted context omitted.
Smartphones are mostly Chinese now (except for iPhones and Samsung).
Apple and Samsung are ~40-50% of the global market, depending on the source. Saying that smartphones are mostly from Chinese companies isn't accurate. And Samsung and Apple are gaining market share, while the major Chinese brands are losing market share. https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/ https://gs.statcounter.com/vendor-market-share/mobile/worldw...
iPhones are predominantly made in China
Foxconn facilities in cities like Zhengzhou (known as "iPhone City") and Shenzhen.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#368The pot calling the kettle black.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#369oh know, better make them pay up your legal fines for stealing all that from the public good.
Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”
#370Information wants to be free.