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“We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

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Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#31

Post by sosodev »

kouteiheika wrote: post #25

Assuming they did then they surely paid for them, which makes it "not stealing". Am I also "stealing proprietary U.S. technology" by harvesting my Claude chats from my `.claude` directory and training a bunch of models on them? That said, I doubt the "they distilled Fable" is the reason why K3 is as good as it is, considering the timelines involved, and that Anthropic hides thinking traces, and their overly aggressiv…

Model distillation can't be stealing at all if you rationally apply copyright law to it. Anthropic is not deprived of Fable so there is no theft. At best it would be infringement, but even that might not hold up in the courts given the current position that model outputs can't be subject to copyright.

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#32

Post by warkdarrior »

supriyo-biswas wrote: post #15
alightsoul wrote: post #7

how is it possible to distill fable only a month after its release? maybe they are confusing opus with fable.

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they just found evidence of distillation once in 2025 against some Chinese AI lab, and they've been lying about the rest to create a narrative.

I also heard that K3 stole the 2020 election, among other things.

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#33

Post by hobonation »

throwa356262 wrote: post #12

Kimi K3 was released July 16, Fable ban was lifted on July 1 but access was still limited. How did Moonshot "distil" a huge model in such short time and still had time to run the benchmarks and do the usual release thingies? I think Anthropic is desperate to stop foreign competition and the administration is happy to help because they too are heavily invested in these companies

I sort of did it. I got Fable to set up an AI system with better and better prompts within my app. At the end of it, Fable made me an AI system that works well enough that my users don't need Fable.

Obviously, it's not K3 level. But Fable did just put itself out of a job in this case.

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#35

Post by sosodev »

mattrighetti wrote: post #29

Is distillation something we have to live with or are there ways to prevent it?

Realistically you can't prevent distillation. OpenAI / Anthropic are slowly moving towards hiding the steps in-between input and output (hidden thinking), but that only helps so much. Imagine you put a file into Claude and say "do X to this" and it returns it to you without showing any of its internal reasoning. That's harder to distill, but the simple mapping of input to output still creates very valuable training data. It is reflective of all the training the model did to learn how to do that transformation.

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#37

Post by bradfa »

I can understand that the AI labs might care about other labs distilling their models as it can eat into their competitive advantage, but do consumers care at all? Aren't consumers benefiting from this practice by getting better cheaper models as a result?

Re: “We have information that Moonshot distilled Fable for the development of K3”

#40

Post by m_ke »

Anthropic should think hard about all their fear mongering. It will only end up backfiring on them and everyone else involved.

They definitely used closed private saas products to train their own models, to prove that just drop random small screenshots of any popular product behind a login screen and see how well it's able to identify all of them. ex: https://x.com/michalwols/status/2079968211865330165

or other similar "AI" startups https://x.com/envconfig/status/2079613455296827402

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