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Advertise in ChatGPT

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Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These comments feel like llm authored astro turfing…

It's a funny claim about me, who doesn't use any LLMs for writing, coding or reducing any kind of mental or manual load. My comments are on the open, and I can answer any question or comment you have about any of them. :) No offense taken though. Made me smile while drinking my tea. :)

Wow! Can I ask how Kagi is best for your uses? Would love to try myself

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We need most of our population working full time to keep ourselves fed because running a farm is really hard" is a technical problem, not a societal one. You can solve it with fertilizer and the cotton gin or whatever. "There's a bunch of us now and barter isn't cutting it anymore" is a technical problem, not a societal one. You can solve it with coinage and banks or whatever. "The internet used to be fun and useful…

What? Why? Why would those first two be "technical problems" that we can "solve" with innovation, but that last example isn't? What makes something a technical problem vs. a societal problem?

Generally, if you're targeting behavior of the people or the masses, you're targeting a societal problem.

People bullying other people is not a technical problem. People driving dangerously is not a technical problem. People shoplifting is not a technical problem. All of them have different reasons deep down, and preventing the symptom doesn't solve the problem.

When you effectively prevent bullying, the bully might damage something else or may do self-harm to soothe their demons. Same for people driving dangerously or have to shoplift to survive.

When you cure the root problem, which is generally harder BTW, the problem you're technically trying to prevent disappears, too.

Hope this helps.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The content is the most varied If no one can find it, you basically have a modern digital version of the "if a tree falls and no one hears it does it make a sound". Discoverability in youtube is currently absurdly shit. The algo just decides you like something and shows you the exact same videos you have already watched 30 times. Its so so bad, specially with how good the front page and side recommendations used to…

Maybe it's your algorithm then because I found lots of great stuff that it surfaced to me that were not just repeats but adjacent topics. For example if I watch Veritasium I get videos about other math and physics topics and creators.

> Maybe it's your algorithm

Nope, its just the set up of Youtube.

The front page is by design around 60% videos you have already watched. Best case scenario.

It used to be 9 videos in 3 rows of 3. now its 2 videos, then 5 shorts.

In the side bar the default was "Related" which was almost always new videos, directly related to the video you just watched. Now its a tab called "All" which aggregates related tabs such as "Watched" which again is videos you already watched. Content from the same channel (not necessary related to the current video)

All of this hides possibly related videos and narrows down discoverability.

it also ignores the push of youtube to reduce visibility of things (the front page being mostly shorts by volume is pretty telling)

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far as I can tell… This is precisely the problem with the entire notion of putting advertising into these models. You’ll never really know.

Yeah, that would be a problem. Luckily, the actual post we're discussing isn't putting any advertising in the model. This is a very important distinction to make -- complaints should be be about what is happening , and should distinguish that from what is not yet happening and should not. Because beyond the maxim that we should try to deal in facts... if OpenAI thinks people can't tell the difference anyways, they'll…

> complaints should be be about what is happening

Why would you think that? An ad supported product has misaligned incentives, everyone can see that and that's why the confidence erodes from that moment on.

You're living in the era in which saying "Stallman was right" is a dead cold take. Every big tech company sold out exactly like the hippies told you they would back when Google was a dream place to work for and Meta was still a twinkle in zuk's eyes.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should they also stop using American tech because of the vast list of American war crimes?

Well there are millions of European trying to avoid US tech. It's hard. A lot harder than Russian tech. As for the comparison, I don't think it's fair. The US has not yet invaded its neighbor, Canada, leading to millions of deaths and heavy casualties. Let's not adopt your binary view on this matter.

The US invaded Afghanistan, Iraq, Vietnam, Syria, Latin America etc.

The list is too long. So here's a link showing the list of invasions, bombings, and CIA-backed regime-change operations in other countries:

https://www.davemanuel.com/us-military-interventions-invasio...

The estimates are that the US has killed between 20 and 30 million people after WWII.

And these are just direct kills. The figure is much higher if you count indirect kills through means of economic sanctions.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These comments feel like llm authored astro turfing…

Yeah that one was praising in a non-specific way. Whether or not it’s genuinely a user, it did feel like astroturfing, which is sad if it’s a real comment that they can’t compliment a good service.

If I wrote the features that I like, and god forbid I use a bullet list, then I'll be labeled as a LLM user or LLM again.

What do you want me to do? :)

I can answer your questions if you want? :D

Edit: Heh, I saw your other comment, too.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#687
post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so you are against ads! At least the way ads are today. With that I mean that the way ads today mostly focus on manipulating over informing is effectively hindering your ability to choose.

> Ah, so you are against ads! At least the way ads are today. With that I mean that the way ads today mostly focus on manipulating over informing is effectively hindering your ability to choose. Speaking as someone who worked in advertising for a looooonnnngggg time, there are three ways that ads seem to work (above a randomised holdout). 1. The ad is something that the person actually wants, and they then convert. 2…

> This HN notion that ads shape everyone's behaviour (except me, obviously) is so disconnected from my experience that I am sometimes confused by it.

Same. They've also never really bothered me, especially billboards and street advertisements. I was actually sad when they got rid of the neon signs in Hong Kong.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/08/fading-glory-t...

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#688
I don't see how this can be any worse than normal ads. Much like how Truman finds his wife Meryl odd with her strange injections of products, the ads will become obnoxious and opaque as well. Another example is how YouTubers often embed their ads into the videos themselves, which routinely gets skipped by users as second nature (check the "most played section" on timeline to see bumps where ads end).

If I ask for deep research on which running shoes to get, it's the comparison of products I'm after. Why is A better than B, etc? I don't see how adds could come into that scope either, unless ChatGPT somehow is lying (which would make me swap to a better non-hallucinating model).

If I ask "who is the most influential Swedish poet" and ChatGPT starts blabbering about some book-company who sells books from that author: okay, maybe I do want to buy it.

So: what's the problem?

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#689

7 years ago we started the 'you are not the product' movement for digital information consumption with Kagi Search. Since then the paradigm shifted from search to agents. Good to see the need for 'you are not the product' still holds up, maybe even more so now: an agent is only worth trusting if it works for you and nobody else. The second an advertiser gets between you and the answer, that's gone. So we're staying o…

Such a refreshing take nowadays. Thanks a lot.

Re: Advertise in ChatGPT

#690

Is Kagi still using Russian government owned tech (Yandex) that censors informations about the illegal Ukraine war crimes ? If so, even if I do agree with your claims about the need to avoid ads so that the user is not the product, I believe there's a double standard in action here. I really liked the product before having to cancel my subscription for this reason. Now I'm stuck with boring Qwant and Ecosia... Well h…

As a Ukrainian user of Kagi, their partnership with Yandex is unfortunate, since they are indirectly funding the war, but at the same time I can totally see why it makes sense for the service they're providing With a service like that you want as much diversification as possible, since western search engines can get heavily censored too. Even if they aren't as censored right now, this might change at any moment with…

Make no mistake, western search is censored probably more so than eastern search.

*EDIT* All you need to do is look at how DMCA is handled… TikTok… Instagram… Facebook… Google…

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