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Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

blog.ericgoldman.org

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Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#231

Post by alistairSH »

mschuster91 wrote: post #22
alistairSH wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a citation for that? Sounds plausible, but I'm not sure I've ever seen it stated that way in any of the related media reports on CSAM efforts.

In Germany, the rise in "youth porn" material has been attributed to such kinds of cases where youth send intimate pictures to each other [1]. Our legal systems are not built to deal with that mess, and it may hang around your neck for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, the law is very explicit, leaving barely any avenue for the courts to drag us out of the mess, and politicians - even if they are actually interes…

We absolutely have the same problem here in the US. There have been a few (small number) of cases that hit the national or regional news where teens were sharing nudes of classmates, etc.

I'm questioning the parent post's contention that the "vast majority" of CSAM falls into this bucket.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#232

Post by EmbarrassedHelp »

St0n3d wrote: post #21

“Apple created its own proprietary alternative, NeuralHash, which apparently wasn’t as good. So Apple U-turned on its efforts to scan for CSAM in its cloud storage. Instead, Apple implemented end-to-end encryption for iCloud files.” Wasn’t Apple’s design to explicitly NOT scan in its cloud storage, but look at the file on-device at the moment you wish to upload it to iCloud? This method would make it compatible with…

A mandatory client side scanning system with an opaque database filled with unverifiable entries would render many of the protections provided by ADP meaningless. Its was insane that Apple was even considering such an idea in the first place.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#233

Post by danaris »

giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

The problem is, the things that would actually prevent CSA require things like "giving children rights", "widely mandating effective age-appropriate sex education even for young children", and "admitting that it's mostly not scary strangers doing it."

These are utterly anathema to huge chunks of society, especially American society. It's more and more clear, from the scope of the Epstein Files, just how much of American society and government has been influenced specifically to enable easy access to children by rich white men. Even beyond that, the entire right wing would instantly catch fire if we actually required effective sex education. Especially age-appropriate sex education going right down to kindergarten (yes, kindergarten: the better children that age understand what's normal and safe, the better they can communicate when someone is doing things to them that are not that...and I only stop at kindergarten because AFAIK that's the earliest mandated schooling still). Similarly, the right wing desperately wants to have absolute control over their children—treat them as property—so giving children rights that even parents have to respect will get them to oppose absolutely everything.

Plus, as other sibling comments have already noted, the real desire here is for ubiquitous surveillance. CSAM is just the excuse they use.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#234

Post by RajT88 »

dgellow wrote: post #140
nylonstrung wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America actually produces less CSAM in general because Americans are lot more off put by Sex than most other cultures The US has the largest pornography industry in the world by a massive margin, and the largest consumption of online pornography per capita Meanwhile should we be surprised that CSAM production is higher in countries like the Philippines that have very weak digital policing, abject poverty, high numb…

The US is pretty extreme, you have at the same time easy access to all the pornography you want (unless you’re in states that require age verification), and also a very prude culture. It’s not the only place with such contradictions though

Texas is particularly wild to me as a midwesterner. All the bibles and megachurches and all that and... They have strip clubs freaking everywhere! Really weird zoning laws as well - I recall seeing a strip club across the street from an Office Depot, next to a deli. The suburbs where I live, you have to go to a seedy part of town so you feel good and ashamed about it. lol

Some TV shows rightfully take aim at this contradiction (recently: The Hunting Wives).

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#235

Post by fluoridation »

rationalist wrote: post #228
giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

> ones who have been involved in abuse scandals in the past (Churches, Scouts, etc) And those groups still have lower rates of abuse than Schools which do a lot less training and enforcement of youth protection policies. Children are still safer in Scouts and churches than in schools. Just about every kid goes to school though, so people just prefer to sweep that under the rug and focus on targeting organizations the…

>And those groups still have lower rates of abuse than Schools

Is that in absolute terms, or per child who frequents the establishment?

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#236

Post by Hasz »

giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

Because it isn't about CSAM, IMO. You see this with plenty of social issues, notably firearms ownership. The claim is we will restrict/license/outlaw xyz for the kids, but really, a data-drive approach would have focused on different things entirely (eg additional behavioral health services for kids, suicide prevention etc)

The same technology/access used for CSAM identification can find copyrighted files, materials that don't support current government, etc. Full E2E encryption seriously raises the cost of mass surveillance, and why the US government fights it at every turn going back 30 years.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#237

Post by GeekyBear »

izacus wrote: post #214
GeekyBear wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he set up his device to upload his private data to Google, or did Google create an OS that automatically sent everyone's private data to their AI server for scanning without explicit consent?

Google Photos does ask you for consent when you run it. (It is, granted, a bit pushy about it and will ask multiple times when you run it with an intrusive dialog.)

Informed consent would require Google to inform you that their AI server will scan every photo you take with your device and report you to the police if it should detect (or hallucinate) something it doesn't like.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#238

Post by godwinson__4-8 »

rationalist wrote: post #228
giantg2 wrote: post #198

Maybe my perception is off, but it seems like there's a huge push by the legislature and some people to do anything and everything to prevent CSAM, yet almost nothing seems to be done to prevent CSA. For CSAM, there's all sorts of monitoring, scanning, identify capturing, etc. But it's all after abuse has taken place, and it seems that many of the people actually arrested are arrested for CSAM and not CSA. This has e…

> ones who have been involved in abuse scandals in the past (Churches, Scouts, etc) And those groups still have lower rates of abuse than Schools which do a lot less training and enforcement of youth protection policies. Children are still safer in Scouts and churches than in schools. Just about every kid goes to school though, so people just prefer to sweep that under the rug and focus on targeting organizations the…

Does the school work to cover it up to the same extent? Are people across the school in on it? Are the rates of abuse higher on a per capita basis?

Why are you making apologies for (Catholic) church sex abuse? Because you are a member and you took a training? Yikes.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#239

Post by daveisfera »

amazingamazing wrote: post #4

It is crazy people think apple isnt on the side of privacy. Are they perfect? Not even close, but compared to the rest of big tech theyre simply on another level. Apple could easily not do this stuff and it may even be easier to not.

I agree but sadly that's eroding. They're starting to let advertisers into the walled garden and it's becoming too big for them to ignore it. That will only get worse and then one day Uncle Sam will walk in with a big check and things will change.

Re: Apple defeats liability for not scanning iCloud for CSAM

#240

Post by anonymars »

SXX wrote: post #57
amazingamazing wrote: post #4

It is crazy people think apple isnt on the side of privacy. Are they perfect? Not even close, but compared to the rest of big tech theyre simply on another level. Apple could easily not do this stuff and it may even be easier to not.

Apple is very much like WhatsApp. Yes you cant perfectly trust their E2EE against state actors, but both in fact put some effort into making world have little bit more privacy. At least on Desktop we have usable Linux, but on the phones there is literally nothing usable because thanks to Google efforts switching to GrapheneOS mean tons of apps either not working or break every few months. Yes its possible to make And…

WhatsApp insists on having access to your contact list. Pro-privacy, it ain't. It's still a Meta product.
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