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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

stratechery.com

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#791
Something I did not realize. The White House instructed intelligence agencies to help in preventing distillation of US models.

Whether or not distillation matters a small amount or a big amount, still interesting:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2026/06/nati...

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm talking about using mechanistic interpretability to see the model's intent. If it is deliberately using compromised libraries to weaken some code's security, there's going to be a signal in its hidden activations that it's doing so. Finding these kinds of activations is something Anthropic is actively researching [1] but they're the only ones who can use those techniques to see Claude's intent. On the other hand,…

Except that the model doesn't hold any malicious intent when doing it. No "deception", no "sabotage".

Not sure I understand that position. Unless we're talking about a scenario in which one is using an outdated model along with no grounding (which, imo, PEBKAC), why would the model be pinning insecure libraries?

If it does have grounding, and can therefore see that it's introducing vulnerabilities to the code it's generating, yet does so anyway... I suppose we could invoke Hanlon's razor, but if the model is that incompetent, it probably isn't the right tool for the job regardless of its provenance.

That said, we aren't talking about incompetent models, we're talking about models sabotaging projects due to hidden motives. My point, again, is that those motives could potentially be revealed with open-weight models, in a way that will never be possible with closed models (barring some sort of legislation requiring independent third-party interpretability audits, which I suppose is in the realm of possibility).

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#793

The 2 things people need to remember: 1) China can (and does) use the models to influence the west. They train in false information about Taiwan and Hong Kong. Or pretend like history is in favor of China. 2) Ignoring the models containing false information, they are incredible. But you should be scared of running inference via the model creators directly. If you think your data is safe compared to running it via mod…

Is anyone using these models as their daily chat driver? I am skeptical.

The vast majority of Westerners will interact with ChatGPT/Claude/Google in a browser. They'll use these models to try to save some money coding.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#794

The post hits it spot on with unequal access to the models in terms of security. I'm developing OSS where security is important for the user ... but the frontier models like GPT 5.6 and Fable flake out and state that I cannot get the info/access. This is extremely lopsided I'll have to resort to GLM 5.2/K3 to ensure that those security issues (hopefully) are resolved properly. For OSS, this is one of the most counter…

Part of me wonders if the US Government is muzzling Anthropic and OpenAI so they can stockpile NOBUS exploits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOBUS There would be a decently large incentive to restrict these models if they could be used to patch (or discover) dangerous payloads. In larger projects like Windows or Chrome, there might still be dozens of unpatched exploits that are too subtle to catch with smaller models…

NOBUS exploits have rarely been a driving interest for elected officials. Trade restrictions and reciprocity are far more salient and legible. Most elected officials are only barely aware of what NOBUS exploits even mean.

Even during the pre-Snowden heyday of US cyber supremacy, these capabilities were barely part of the thought process of White House officials.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#795

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a good faith question? Please check the site guidelines.

uses rhetoric counterparty uses rhetoric in response "Hey! No fair!"

Pointing out that the US cancels their green projects when Republicans take over is a fact, it's not rhetoric.

There's plenty of room for interesting discussion on what it takes to make green energy work. "What, are you against freedom?!" is not that.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of me wonders if the US Government is muzzling Anthropic and OpenAI so they can stockpile NOBUS exploits: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOBUS There would be a decently large incentive to restrict these models if they could be used to patch (or discover) dangerous payloads. In larger projects like Windows or Chrome, there might still be dozens of unpatched exploits that are too subtle to catch with smaller models…

NOBUS exploits have rarely been a driving interest for elected officials. Trade restrictions and reciprocity are far more salient and legible. Most elected officials are only barely aware of what NOBUS exploits even mean. Even during the pre-Snowden heyday of US cyber supremacy, these capabilities were barely part of the thought process of White House officials.

Conversely, the United States is now embroiled deeper in asymmetric warfare than ever before. US-based systems are being exploited by Chinese efforts like Salt Typhoon and raising questions about reciprocal attacks. Other targets of US soft-power like Iran (Stuxnet victim) are escalating their hacking efforts and using Chinese technology to stifle American command and control.

I can believe that NOBUS and other backdoors were ignored for a long time, but I have a hard time believing that it's being ignored by the current administration.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#797

The post hits it spot on with unequal access to the models in terms of security. I'm developing OSS where security is important for the user ... but the frontier models like GPT 5.6 and Fable flake out and state that I cannot get the info/access. This is extremely lopsided I'll have to resort to GLM 5.2/K3 to ensure that those security issues (hopefully) are resolved properly. For OSS, this is one of the most counter…

Yeah, the benefit of restricting us models is definitely outweighed by the positive effect these models could have for the OSS community!

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#798
post #717

I'm afraid to trust technology coming from companies operating under the jurisdiction of a rogue aggressive nation that is continuously attacking other nations both (so called) ally and foe using economic and military actions.

Are you talking about US companies, right?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#799

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Outside of a few boarder disputes with India, I don't China has militarily attacked anyone since they got their ass handed to them by Vietnam (Sino-Vietnamese War 1979). So I think that rules out China.

Hong Kong would like a word...

Hong Kong is a Chinese city since 1997. The aggressors in this whole situation are the British bastards

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#800

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you describing the United States or China with this quote? It's hard to tell.

Outside of a few boarder disputes with India, I don't China has militarily attacked anyone since they got their ass handed to them by Vietnam (Sino-Vietnamese War 1979). So I think that rules out China.

The Philippines have some news for you…
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