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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#781

Post by iso1631 »

ralferoo wrote: post #599
sarchertech wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China emits 3x more co2 than the US and last year their rate of increase was 2.5x that of the US. https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by...

"big number bad" isn't a great way of analysing the data, because China has a massively larger population. The US emits 49% more CO2 per capita than China. And even with the much larger rate of increase, 0.79% to US' 0.3%, it'll still require 81 years to catch up to the US per capita rate [0]. The US aren't the good guys here, not by any means. Compared to my country, for instance, the US' emissions are 3x per capita…

You need to account for carbin import/exports in manufactured goods and services

If the UK imported all its electricity from Poland, it would reduce on a per-capita basis but would increase global

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#782

Post by tcmart14 »

WarmWash wrote: post #683
bamboozled wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, China believes in Climate change and are at least taking steps to address it. Personally this is making me trust them more than the USA because, facts. I mean lesser of two evils thinking, if one is intentionally leading us towards climate disaster, while the other isn't then yeah. What else can be said? Should I trust the authoritarian country who believes in engineering and science, or the one that doesn't?

>Agree, China believes in Climate change and are at least taking steps to address it. China brought 80GW of new coal power online last year. The US added 0, and plans to add 3GW next year (we all know why). China doesn't care about climate change, they care about energy independence, and conveniently have very little natural fossil fuels besides coal. Which they heavily mine and utilize.

From my understanding, yea they still stand up coal fire plants because world demand for Chinese manufacturing and the energy demand it creates exceeds how fast they can build reactors. So they build coal fire with the intention to replace that capacity with renewables later. Been awhile since I looked, but China has like 30-some odd plans for nuclear reactor construction with quiet a few of them having already broken ground, but that was about 5 years ago.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#783

Post by linkregister »

beepbooptheory wrote: post #638
sarchertech wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China emits 3x more co2 than the US and last year their rate of increase was 2.5x that of the US. https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by...

Kind of a meta point but for those who don't know, its fun to track this comment and its responses through time. I want to nominate it for the hall of fame in classic HN post genre. It will be two decades soon! https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=21&prefix=false&q... One interesting thing would be to see how the numbers change over the years alongside the otherwise identical debates.

Can you refine that search term a bit more? I followed the link but it brings up many marginally related comments.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#784

Post by mad_tortoise »

a34729t wrote: post #780
ToValueFunfetti wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank god. I'd been hearing we screwed up catastrophically by electing an admin that took a chainsaw to our foreign aid programs, killing millions in the developing world. Such a relief to learn we were never doing that stuff in the first place.

yeah comments like this show that ending USAID was the right move (apart from it's obvious utility to pass along bribes)

Ending USAID is the exact reason hundreds of thousands suffer more today than they did a few years ago. It is the reason mass migration takes place from developing to developed. The total ignorance and outright stupidity of comments like this is why Yanks should really take a seat when it comes to talking about geopolitics.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#785

Post by NyxWulf »

sperr11 wrote: post #775

I think a simple experiment is enough to understand why one would have some concern with a state-censored AI model : Just try asking them about atrocities committed by their state[1]. [1] : https://imgur.com/gallery/ai-models-on-atrocities-B7DKUXc

It's hard to overstate how important this point is. If China is the standard of openness, it's a pretty low standard. Your point I think adds to what the article is saying, from a different perspective, but arrives at a similar place. Our best selves in many ways are defined by openness, unflinching self reflection, and competition. We should remember that, and as the author of the article says, lean into it rather than letting fear mongering and histrionics protect these models from competition.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#786

Post by stronglikedan »

chrisss395 wrote: post #745
WinstonSmith84 wrote: post #480

I'm rather scared of US models - if Anthropic was the only AI provider in the world, it's easy to see that common people would have no access at all. Thankfully there is OpenAI which compete 1:1 with Anthropic (at a slightly lower cost) but most importantly the Chinese models keep Anthropic, but also OpenAI in checks. And I'm saying this as someone working for American companies.

Re: common people, yes, and given all the talk of job instability AI is creating, why hasn’t Anthropic or OpenAI offered discounted plans for laid off or displaced workers? Wouldn’t this be a tangible way to display goodwill and build adoption?

> why hasn’t Anthropic or OpenAI offered discounted plans for laid off or displaced workers?

Because it's not a widespread phenomenon. A few large tech cos laid off large swaths of people a handful of times. That's only happening in those large tech cos. Most cos are empowering their employees with AI as a tool, not a replacement, and they're not letting anyone go (unless they refuse to use this new tool).

Of course, they're not hiring as much either, since their current teams can accomplish more with AI as a tool. Maybe the AI companies could give job seekers a bit of a discount, but that would be abused to all hell without crazy administrative overhead costs, so why would they?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#788

Post by stronglikedan »

tcmart14 wrote: post #773
bigyabai wrote: post #765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you describing the United States or China with this quote? It's hard to tell.

Outside of a few boarder disputes with India, I don't China has militarily attacked anyone since they got their ass handed to them by Vietnam (Sino-Vietnamese War 1979). So I think that rules out China.

Hong Kong would like a word...

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#789

Post by drop_star »

joering2 wrote: post #739
flybarrel wrote: post #730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sir, given what's happening in the world these days, I cannot really tell which nation you meant by your statement :D

Really? Ok, name list of rogue aggressive nations that are continuously attacking other nations both allies and foes, and I tell you which one he meant...

The United States

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#790

Post by Natfan »

ozgrakkurt wrote: post #761
Natfan wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my understanding is that you can speak ill of the government publicly? like they'll nuke your billibilli if you talk shit about xi, but you can complain privately to a friend not saying i agree with it, i'm saying it isn't as severe as the west makes it out to be

That is an extremely low bar. Imagine you couldn't do that, that would basically be George Orwell's 1984.

well in 1984 the two way televisions would get you

again i'm not saying i approve, I'm pointing out the distinction

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