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Who's afraid of Chinese models?

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Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#601

Post by Ekaros »

sarchertech wrote: post #561
bamboozled wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, China believes in Climate change and are at least taking steps to address it. Personally this is making me trust them more than the USA because, facts. I mean lesser of two evils thinking, if one is intentionally leading us towards climate disaster, while the other isn't then yeah. What else can be said? Should I trust the authoritarian country who believes in engineering and science, or the one that doesn't?

China emits 3x more co2 than the US and last year their rate of increase was 2.5x that of the US. https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by...

USA emits 2165574,97709 times more than Faroe Islands. Sounds like they should be forced to limit that to some reasonable level say 2x of that of Faroe Islands. Don't think it would be too big ask right?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#602

Post by eli »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #475
jay_kyburz wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err.. I would like preserve my own right to decide who I'll do business with.

Unironically would love to kill that right. Unironically that stupid cake maker in Colorado should have just made the damn cake. Wage spiritual warfare against the petit-bourgeoise. They all deserve it anyway, as they are the traditional harbringers of actual fascism.

The law was probably fine - that case was just wrongly decided based on the outcome the majority of justices wanted.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#603

Post by nixon_why69 »

inglor_cz wrote: post #570
abalashov wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Russian, I deeply appreciate this. In Russia, it seemed obvious to even the most parochial peasant that there was propaganda, while in America, the vast majority of the society not only fails to consider the possibility, but is cholerically allergic to the very idea. Edit: recognising that there is propaganda != knowing what is and isn't propaganda. That's all I meant.

If every parochial peasant could recognize Russian official propaganda, why are so many people on board with whatever the propaganda says? I mean, it took longer than the Great Patriotic War before Putin's popularity started visibly falling and people started questioning what the entire "SVO" is for.

I mean, if the American propaganda is "you are evil" and the Russian propaganda is "fuck those guys", you don't have to agree on every particular. People have nationalism everywhere.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#604

Post by whynotminot »

hosteur wrote: post #589
giancarlostoro wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's nice and all, but I would not get hired in many places that are heavily regulated and risk adverse, and would not hire someone who swears by said models because there is no trust in their creators not training for malicious intent, a random tool call here and there, and you've got a "open weight model" that can send your code anywhere. There's just no trust in a country that is digitally totalitarian and hosti…

> There's just no trust in a country that is digitally totalitarian and hostile towards its own people. Are you referring to USA, China or EU here?

What you personally believe and perception within the United States are not the same thing.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#605

Post by sarchertech »

ralferoo wrote: post #599
sarchertech wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China emits 3x more co2 than the US and last year their rate of increase was 2.5x that of the US. https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by...

"big number bad" isn't a great way of analysing the data, because China has a massively larger population. The US emits 49% more CO2 per capita than China. And even with the much larger rate of increase, 0.79% to US' 0.3%, it'll still require 81 years to catch up to the US per capita rate [0]. The US aren't the good guys here, not by any means. Compared to my country, for instance, the US' emissions are 3x per capita…

In absolute numbers China produces 1/3 of the total worlds CO2, and they are still growing the amount of CO2 they are producing.

That is not the actions of a country who “believes in climate change”.

China’s CO2 per capita is ahead of every large developed country except for the US, Australia, and Russia.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#606

Post by DevDesmond »

jari_mustonen wrote: post #579
xlmnxp wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same thing happen for western models, try to ask about Gaza genocide and see for what side it will stand

I had a steange experience talking to Claude about a random 15-years old boys winning women’s national soccer team. It insisted, to a level that I detemined it to be part of the post training, that it does not matter. That women’s team is better at dribbling, finishing and reading the field, it claimed. When I pushed it how it knows this, it didn’t let go. Instead it started claiming that it has personally observed t…

Are you trying to cite the U15 Dallas FC academy team as a “random” team?

Please do share your prompt / conversation, because it sounds like you might actually just have an issue using words precisely.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#607

Post by traceroute66 »

girvo wrote: post #574
traceroute66 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China can (and does) use the models to influence the west. They train in false information about Taiwan and Hong Kong. Or pretend like history is in favor of China. I am not Chinese and I'm not defending the Chinese, but I see this argument come up a lot. In practical terms it is US-sponsored FUD. Why ? Because the hard reality is that what you say is simply not going to affect 99.9999999999% of users. Is it realis…

People absolutely use LLMs to research politically sensitive topics. I wish they wouldn’t, but people use LLMs as their general search engines now.

> People absolutely use LLMs to research politically sensitive topics.

Note I used the word "seriously", I meant it in its fullest form, i.e. serious people.

I'm not interested in what-if arguments based on "you can't fix stupid".

Stupid people also blindly believe whatever a US LLM tells them without any form of verification, hallucinations and all.

Most people on this planet would agree that a Chinese LLM is perfectly usable for all tasks except asking about politically sensitive matters.

And for most people on the planet, that is just fine. They can get their political information elsewhere.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#608

Post by sarchertech »

Ekaros wrote: post #601
sarchertech wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China emits 3x more co2 than the US and last year their rate of increase was 2.5x that of the US. https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-by...

USA emits 2165574,97709 times more than Faroe Islands. Sounds like they should be forced to limit that to some reasonable level say 2x of that of Faroe Islands. Don't think it would be too big ask right?

China produces 1/3 of the world’s CO2. They already produce more per capita than all other large developed countries except Australia, the US, and Russia. And their rate of growth is higher than all of those countries except Russia.

There’s no way to force them to do anything, but this is not that action of a nation that “believes in climate change”.

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#609

Post by codedokode »

utilize1808 wrote: post #489
wyrdcurt wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I should clarify. As I understand it, the kind of vulnerability being discussed is something like a Chinese model invisibly "realizing" that it's working on an American project, and then deliberately leaving subtle security bugs in its generated code for Chinese hackers to later exploit. As far as I know, that scenario is hypothetically possible, but has never been demonstrated to happen in the wild. Admittedly…

They can just favour some specific versions of some library that's been compromised. Unlike introducing bugs / flaws directly in the source code, they can claim plausible deniability, and it's much easier to implement without compromising the general coding capabilities of the models.

Cannot non-Chinese closed weights model do the same?

Re: Who's afraid of Chinese models?

#610

Post by radicalbyte »

mc32 wrote: post #536
traceroute66 wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any non-US company, US can block the models which can disrupt the whole business. And read your data, see CLOUD act, PATRIOT act etc. etc. No longer a theoretical risk in today's US political environment.

Hasn’t that been the assumption since Carnivore? Also we tapped European pols phones back in ‘12, was it? Though it’s not like the Eu are a bunch of innocents either… It’s not a new thing. Industrial espionage has always been a thing as well. So has bribery (for deals) been a thing especially by euro concerns.

Our intelligence services have capabilities, it's not just the US. The Patriot / Cloud Act increase the scope outside of intelligence agencies. I'm of the opinion that for military intelligence there is a legitimate need to have some - black - capability. It should just be highly limited in scope.
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