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China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

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Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#111

Post by lousken »

tyleo wrote: post #6

I’m suspicious of some quotes here, “80% of startups using Chinese models,” doesn’t seem quite right to me. I just interviewed at several startups and they were all using the US models. Maybe they have some minor use of Chinese models but the bread-and-butter of most of these businesses model use is the Claude and Codex subscriptions.

It depends, I guess if they still dont care about losing money or they already had subscriptions then they keep using them, likely either openai or anthropic. If they noticed the bill going up, like with github copilot, they are looking at the alternatives.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#112

Post by elevation »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #35
_aavaa_ wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dumping is such a loaded term. This is investor-backed scaling to capture market share, standard VC playbook.

It will never stop being funny to me that China does the exact same shit American corps have been doing since the 70's but because it's scary China it's suddenly a problem. American startups flood markets with below-cost loss-leader products explicitly to kill competition and create network effects, and then jack the prices just as high, if not higher, for the service in question after the fact, oftentimes while maki…

[dead]

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#113

Post by childintime »

faitswulff wrote: post #49
atleastoptimal wrote: post #34

AI models cost tens of millions to train. Offering them for free won’t justify the upfront costs. The Chinese model of model training/open sourcing only makes sense in the context of the overall strategy of undercutting American frontier labs’ profit margins.

It’s also a flywheel for China’s homegrown chips industry.

Exactly, the whole ecosystem. Cheap robots with cheap models. AI is oil to let the machine work, it should be cheap and ubiquitous.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#114

Post by idiotsecant »

01100011 wrote: post #66
tyleo wrote: post #6

I’m suspicious of some quotes here, “80% of startups using Chinese models,” doesn’t seem quite right to me. I just interviewed at several startups and they were all using the US models. Maybe they have some minor use of Chinese models but the bread-and-butter of most of these businesses model use is the Claude and Codex subscriptions.

If if it were true, who cares? Most startups fail. Most are terrible ideas and/or terribly executed. I fail to see why it's a useful metric.

Is your point that startups fail so we should disregard the central thesis that locked down AI will eventually lost to open models?

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#115

Post by lossolo »

slibhb wrote: post #95
ForHackernews wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't ask it to be "balanced", I asked it why governments are more efficient — it's imparting a pro-capitalist American-flavoured spin in response to a prompt that didn't call for it.

These models are trained to be truthful. Your disagreement isn't with the model, or the US, or the capitalist world but with economics and social sciences. If you want Claude to list arguments for socialism, be explicit about that ("List the best arguments in favor socialism). It will gladly comply. You didn't do that, you asked it to assume a premise that runs contrary to the current state of expert knowledge.

> These models are trained to be truthful

A more accurate statement would be that these models are trained to fit the training data as closely as possible, regardless of whether the training data reflects the truth.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#116

Post by TheArcane »

tyleo wrote: post #6

I’m suspicious of some quotes here, “80% of startups using Chinese models,” doesn’t seem quite right to me. I just interviewed at several startups and they were all using the US models. Maybe they have some minor use of Chinese models but the bread-and-butter of most of these businesses model use is the Claude and Codex subscriptions.

anecdotal but we heavily use Qwen to build our own models on top of

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#117

Post by kirtivr »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #41

>And open almost always wins when it comes to infrastructure adoption. They lost me here. Too many counterexamples exist for me to even continue.

Here is a counterexample to whatever counterexample you have in mind -

Most popular models on OpenRouter right now: https://openrouter.ai/models?categories=programming&order=mo...

Top 7 are all open models.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#118

Post by 01284a7e »

postalcoder wrote: post #47

This is a very strange article considering that Llama, the mother of all open-weight models, has led to anything but success for Meta. Also, enterprises don't give a rip if models are open. They care about zero data retention (and sticking with whatever vendor they're already using). This blog post is suspiciously close to being a restatement of what Alex Karp recently said on CNBC[0]. It's important to remember he's…

With a race to win a multi-trillion dollar market, there could be, maybe perhaps, a little propaganda happening.

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#119

Post by TheArcane »

_aavaa_ wrote: post #3

> I have serious concerns about how these models might reflect Chinese government perspectives (try asking them about Tiananmen Square). And I have serious concerns about the American ones. Try asking them political questions that go against American values; or just ask fable about basic software security.

For instance, try asking American models about the Palestinian genocide

Re: China’s open-weights AI strategy is winning

#120

Post by TheArcane »

canjobear wrote: post #4
_aavaa_ wrote: post #3

> I have serious concerns about how these models might reflect Chinese government perspectives (try asking them about Tiananmen Square). And I have serious concerns about the American ones. Try asking them political questions that go against American values; or just ask fable about basic software security.

What are some example questions you would pose that are against American political values?

masking the active genocide & war crimes in Palestine
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