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Firefox 153.0 Beta

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Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#41

Post by Yizahi »

crote wrote: post #14
ls612 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla’s executives don’t want to get arrested. It’s one thing to tell the Kazakhs to stuff it. Quite another to tell the EU, especially if any of them like overseas vacations.

If they are solely doing it for legal reasons, I would expect some form of malicious compliance - like an accompanying blog post explaining how it'll be marked as "Firefox is legally required to tell you the EU considers this page safe. We disagree. [Learn More]" and that the mark will only be shown to EU users. Complying to the exact letter of a stupid law to avoid getting sued is understandable. Voluntarily complyi…

The problem with QWACs and eSTAZI is a saturation attack by govt. against people. If Mozilla will display that message it will need to do it on all connections with QWACs, and 99.99% will be safe, initially. So govt. can demand them to remove misleading message. And Mozilla can't detect when govt. will use their CA to do a MITM attack on their political opposition and display message only then.

Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#42

Post by RunSet »

crote wrote: post #2

> Firefox now verifies and displays Qualified Website Authentication Certificates (QWACs) in accordance with eIDAS regulations. Interesting that they just buried this in the middle without even a screenshot, considering how hostile Mozilla has been to the proposal in the past[0]. Considering that they previously made quite strong arguments that implementing QWAC would undermine security by completely bypassing the ex…

> Firefox seems hellbent on rapidly turning into a reimplementation of Chrome

You can rest assured that Mozilla will never copy Chrome's updating the mouse coordinates during dragstart, drag and dragend events.

"the spec doesn't specify what the properties should be set to, just that they should be set and we currently set them to 0."

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=505521

16 years and no sign of a resolution. I look forward to celebrating the day that bug becomes old enough to split a six pack with me.

Edit: It was first filed on July 21, 2009 so it will soon be 17.

Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#43

Post by sdk- »

unethical_ban wrote: post #8

They note containers as a new feature. Does this mean containers are shipping with the base installation, instead of as an extension?

Yes. Containers will be enabled by default in the regular release without the need to install the extension or flip a preference in about:config.

It's also planned to integrate the ability to assign a website to a specific container. There's no information available on the other extra features from Multi-Account Containers like VPN/Proxy per container for the moment.

You can follow the development on bugzilla https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?component=Container...

Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#44

Post by lproven »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #37
petu wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think in case of Firefox it's done purely with JS ( https://mozilla.github.io/pdf.js/ ), no native code. So that feels fine (assuming it runs in same sandbox like any page), just bundled HTML/JS being changed.

No, it's still a weird scope creep. Browsers can view a lot of things (HTML document, various pictures, sounds, videos), but they don't typically include editing functionality.

> they don't typically include editing functionality.

Not true. The original Mozilla Internet Suite was a combined browser, email/newsgroups client, and web-page editor. It was an open-sourced version of Netscape Communicator which did the same things. Seamonkey is the modern fork.

Firefox is the result of a project to cut down the Mozilla suite to something smaller, simpler and more focused, but its parent program and direct ancestor edited text, HTML, and did other read/write stuff like messaging, calendaring, etc.

Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#45

Post by bityard »

ls612 wrote: post #7
crote wrote: post #2

> Firefox now verifies and displays Qualified Website Authentication Certificates (QWACs) in accordance with eIDAS regulations. Interesting that they just buried this in the middle without even a screenshot, considering how hostile Mozilla has been to the proposal in the past[0]. Considering that they previously made quite strong arguments that implementing QWAC would undermine security by completely bypassing the ex…

Mozilla’s executives don’t want to get arrested. It’s one thing to tell the Kazakhs to stuff it. Quite another to tell the EU, especially if any of them like overseas vacations.

Which is why these kinds of ultimatums NEED to be fought against, and aggressively. There ought to be NO room for any government to tell an open source project which features they must--or cannot--implement. Allowing this sort of thing is how you kill open source software. (Which may actually be their goal...)

But, if Mozilla wanted to acquiesce, they could release an EU-only version instead of weakening the trust/security of their browser for everyone.

Also, imagine the backlash that would happen if some part of the United States executive branch demanded the same thing the EU is demanding here.

Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#46

Post by lproven »

RattlesnakeJake wrote: post #9
rustyhancock wrote: post #3

> It is now possible to merge multiple PDFs by dragging a PDF into the PDF sidebar. > It is now possible to add images as new pages within PDFs using the Firefox PDF editor. I have always found it odd that browsers are also PDF editors increasingly.

It's odd and I'm not sure I love it compared to a nicely-done dedicated viewer (macOS Preview, SumatraPDF, whatever comes with GNOME or KDE). That said, I'll pick the in-browser tools over Adobe Reader every time.

> nicely-done dedicated viewer

The problem is the edge cases. PDF has lots.

In $DAYJOB-1 we used PDFs as part of the official feedback process for technical documentation: subject-matter experts sent their comments as PDF annotations. Most FOSS viewers can't show them.

Form filling also is a tricky area. Conversion, searching, accessibility tools (screenreaders often can't read PDFs), comments, annotations, editing, all these and more are significant functional weaknesses for the free viewers.

That's setting aside the really fancy stuff, like 3D objects, video, media content, etc.

Even so PDF viewers are big and complicated things so smaller distros pick up tools from alien desktops -- e.g. KDE's Okular, which I find fugly but can handle comments, or GNOME's weird crippled UI in Evince or Papers, with no menu bars etc., but which is Gtk so you find it in many Gtk desktops.

It wasn't hard for the Firefox viewer to outdo 90-95% of the free viewers because the free viewers only do the dead basic stuff, and that kept Acrobat Reader alive on other OSes -- even though the last Linux one is version 9, from 2008.

Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#47

Post by pavon »

SahAssar wrote: post #33
mikae1 wrote: post #12

Why does this show “Containers” under new? I've used this feature for years and years...

They seem to be different but overlapping: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/containers#w_common-que...

Both Firefox containers and multi-account container extention described in that link have been around for years. Nothing in that page describes what is new/changed in Firefox 153.

Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#48

Post by mikae1 »

lproven wrote: post #44
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's still a weird scope creep. Browsers can view a lot of things (HTML document, various pictures, sounds, videos), but they don't typically include editing functionality.

> they don't typically include editing functionality. Not true. The original Mozilla Internet Suite was a combined browser, email/newsgroups client, and web-page editor. It was an open-sourced version of Netscape Communicator which did the same things. Seamonkey is the modern fork. Firefox is the result of a project to cut down the Mozilla suite to something smaller, simpler and more focused, but its parent program a…

The first web browser was also an editor (albeit not for PDFs). Accessible editing was a part of was Berners-Lee's vision for the web.

> The first web browser - or browser-editor rather - was called WorldWideWeb as, after all, when it was written in 1990 it was the only way to see the web.[1]

[1] https://www.w3.org/People/Berners-Lee/WorldWideWeb.html

Re: Firefox 153.0 Beta

#49

Post by ls612 »

crote wrote: post #14
ls612 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla’s executives don’t want to get arrested. It’s one thing to tell the Kazakhs to stuff it. Quite another to tell the EU, especially if any of them like overseas vacations.

If they are solely doing it for legal reasons, I would expect some form of malicious compliance - like an accompanying blog post explaining how it'll be marked as "Firefox is legally required to tell you the EU considers this page safe. We disagree. [Learn More]" and that the mark will only be shown to EU users. Complying to the exact letter of a stupid law to avoid getting sued is understandable. Voluntarily complyi…

Have you ever heard the phrase "show me the man and I'll show you the crime"? The Europeans have and will not be happy if Mozilla does something like this.
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