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The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

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Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#71

Post by rafram »

mothballed wrote: post #63
RandomLensman wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU passports do.

The average US border official is a (angry) moron (with a badge and a gun). They've literally fingerprinted me on entry with a US passport because they were too stupid to figure out US citizens don't have to do that. I have been interrogated by CBP to ask if I "work in the country" despite being a citizen. Anything that changes the process from the simplest one-size-fits all will be fucked up, they cannot differentia…

> because they were too stupid to figure out US citizens don't have to do that

This seems extremely unlikely to me. Did you stand in the noncitizens line by mistake?

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#72

Post by mothballed »

bluGill wrote: post #62
maratc wrote: post #12

The point missing in the article is that, in order to enter the US, one needs to give the US Govt their photo and fingerprints ("biometric data") anyway. There are two options: visa-free with the biometric data passing on the wire (no hassle), or visa (a major hassle) and biometric data passing in the airport (a minor one). As a side note, the EU also collects photo and fingerprints from visitors now. Whereas in the…

Does the EU really collect that, or only sometimes? I know the EU reserves the right to collect all that, but do they in practice? I haven't been to the EU in a decade, but last time I was there I was standing in the customs line for non-EU residents and someone official saw my US passport in hand and directed me to the much shorter/faster EU citizens line. I walked right through customs without being checked at all.

The EU is very sporadic. I walked straight into Sweden from a flight from Iraq and customs was not even there, and passport control waved everyone through with the most cursory of glances.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#73

Post by bluGill »

RandomLensman wrote: post #45
kalleboo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine it to match that the biometrics on file with the biometrics presented at the border to catch forgeries?

Is there a high incidence of forgeries?

Probably not high, but forgeries are the people of most concern. Most people are honest travelers (either on business or vacation), and will go back home. Most people only commit crimes of the type "I didn't know this thing was illegal here: it is legal and common back home" - and the agent who catches it responds "I find a bunch of you every day who didn't know that - just put it in the destroy bucket and have fun" (technically they can arrest you for trying to bring something illegal in, but they know this is an honest mistake that isn't worth doing anything more about)

The forgeries are rare, but they are also the people customs cares most about. Those people who are planning to commit a serious crime of some sort.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#74

Post by rafram »

RandomLensman wrote: post #56
rafram wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most countries' passports don't include fingerprint data. The US passport application process is entirely digital/by mail, for example, with no fingerprinting at all.

EU passports do.

Not those issued in Denmark or Ireland, apparently [1], though I see other sources saying Denmark does fingerprint now. Most countries don't fingerprint children.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passports_of_the_European_Unio...

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#75

Post by [deleted] »

RandomLensman wrote: post #68
buckle8017 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no fingerprints in the passport. Edit apparently some but not all EU passports do, which is weird.

Which EU passports don't (other than below some age, lack of fingers etc.)? For a while some older ones might not have, but not sure if the expiry would still be long enough? Edit: seems like Ireland is the odd one out (Danemark could, but seems to fingerprint).

[deleted]

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#76

Post by calgoo »

maratc wrote: post #64
thomasahle wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whereas in the US you only need to go through fingerprinting only once Once for each arrival.

Not my experience the last time I entered. I travelled with a friend for whom it was his first time visiting the US. He was fingerprinted, I wasn’t (I was fingerprinted a while ago on one of my previous trips.)

I have gotten fingerprinted every time i arrive, before i got a green card and after i got a green card. Not sure if its related to something else, country of origin or country im traveling from etc.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#77

Post by ExoticPearTree »

buckle8017 wrote: post #60
RandomLensman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fingerprints in the passport can't do that?

There's no fingerprints in the passport. Edit apparently some but not all EU passports do, which is weird.

Some countries in the EU only issue biometric passports only. And they have your fingerprints in them.

Others I imagine issue both types of passports and that's why some people are fingerprinted more often.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#78

Post by calgoo »

some_random wrote: post #29
Vinnl wrote: post #14

It's not clear to me if this would allow access to all biometric data, or "just" to that of people crossing the US border? And for the latter, what data are we talking about? If it's mostly fingerprints, don't those already get collected upon crossing the border? And can't they already be read from a passport's chip?

It's just for people crossing the border, and yeah it's mostly fingerprints. The point is mainly to detect fraudulent passports, and the rest of the data is self explanatory (the US obviously is interested in people visiting that EU agencies have flagged for being potential terrorists).

do they actually say that they can only do a lookup when checking a visa, or are we giving api access to the US government and saying "Dont do evil" >

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#79

Post by bluGill »

mothballed wrote: post #52
toymin wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A visa allows you entry That's incorrect, holding a B1/B2 US visa only allows you to arrive at the port of entry, the actual permission to enter the country is always left to the border officer interviewing you

It is legal to show up at a port of entry without any sort of anything. If all it allows you to do is show up at the port of entry it's a worthless scrap of paper.

In practice if you have the VISA they will almost always admit you. If you are rejected it generally means they find something at the border.

Re: The EU is about to sell our most sensitive data to the US for visa-free travel

#80

Post by maratc »

tokai wrote: post #24

»It is on this basis that EU countries would then adopt their own bilateral EBSP agreements directly with the US (or adapt their existing arrangements).« So nobody has sold anybody out yet. The solution is to never visit the USA.

You seem to have forgotten the first part of the "solution": be an EU citizen.

For those who are neither US nor EU citizens, both immigration systems are a hassle, and in my experience the EU's is sadly a worse one.

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