That seems perfectly reasonable. Eminent domain for power lines is about the most reasonable use of the tool. This kind of thing is what it’s there for.
For private companies building ai data centers that the communities don't want?
When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
111–120 of 164 posts
Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Regardless of the computational needs to facilitate mass surveilance, there are inescapable storage needs precipitated by surveilance. Governments want to retain data because its value in the future is unknown in the present. This is the entire premise behind the Harvest Now Decrypt Later[0] principle that fuels much of the previous surveilance actions taken by governments. But HNDL is speculative; it either hedges o…
Harvest Now Decrypt Later principle holds very well for intelligence work, the harvested information could be useful for very long time. You can see this in the long time intervals specified for Declassification of classified documents. "Executive Order 13526 establishes the mechanisms for most declassifications, within the laws passed by Congress.[1] The originating agency assigns a declassification date, by default…
Well put; the scope of usefulness of surveilance data lies well beyond what is in that data itself, but how it relates to other data. You don't necessarily need to decrypt data to distill value from it, as its metadata (location, datetime, medium, etc.) is also (and potentially more) useful when related with other metadata. Storing this data is also a monumental task, given the fidelity of records that many consumer devices create, store, and upload.
Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#113Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
But what if I want to live in a country with a growing economy and improving infrastructure? Forbidding all development does hurt corporations and the wealthy, but just in the sense that it hurts everyone, including them. If we do want to soak the rich, can we do it in a progressive, targeted way (such as taxes) and not in a NIMBY way where we just say no one can build or improve anything?
Private Corpo Infra != Public Use Infra. They cannot be treated the same way.
If they pay enough, why not? What is public use infrastructure in your opinion? Any difference than building more houses (like a dense apartment complex) and extend the grid there? That's still private corp infrastructure.
Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be even more nuanced, the land is not typically taken entirely. The more typical solution is an easement with compensation for the land owner to cover the reduction in utility. Transmission lines are pretty harmless when considering things that could be built instead. Zero emissions, silent, no illumination, etc.
> Zero emissions, silent, no illumination, etc. Mostly silent. High voltage transmission lines may have a low-frequency hum. You have to stand directly under them to hear it though.
Over time as some dirty coats the insulators, and on high humidity days some kind of crackling is clearly audible in a fairly wide radio close to the towers.
Also, transmission towers are usually the best lightning rods for miles in a given location, and it is fucking unsettling to live close to them during storms. Not to mention they are an eye sore.
Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#116Misleading title: they are using eminent domain to seize land for power lines to data centers. (emphasis mine) This is still quite debatable, but so much less so than the implied accusation that they would somehow sell out their privileges as subcontractors for the data centers themselves.
There's a parcel of land in Texas that was left to the city to be used as a park, they've since sold it to a Data Center.
Though, this isn't strictly imminent domain... Just people being assholes.
Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#117Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#118Misleading title: they are using eminent domain to seize land for power lines to data centers. (emphasis mine) This is still quite debatable, but so much less so than the implied accusation that they would somehow sell out their privileges as subcontractors for the data centers themselves.
Dunno why you think it's obvious that I should be able to have the state seize your house for my own personal infrastructure just because I demand I chew through so much electricity that the local infrastructure can't support my demands.
Do you have the same objection if it for a housing project, built by a private corp?
That's a practice that exists everywhere. This is an article about a case of expropriation in the Netherlands. The government frequently uses expropriation ("onteigening") to forcibly remove old, small wind turbines owned by private farmers to make room for massive, industrial-scale wind farms. In Dutch, so you'll need to swith on English translation:
https://www.dirkzwager.nl/kennis/artikelen/afdeling-bestuurs...
Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
These are not silent nor zero emission. These do emit large electromagnetic fields that interfere with some electronics. There are also some studies that show higher risk of childhood leukemia and potentially negative affects to sensitive groups such as people with neurodiverse conditions. They also tend to hum and crackle. At times you will have helicopters doing line work too.
Having zero knowledge about these studies I have high credence they are baloney.
Well maybe you should have a bit more hubris is in the face of science. You can power a lightbulb just by standing under certain high-voltage lines.
Re: When can a power company take your land for data center infrastructure?
#120Notice how when it comes to the interests of Capital, suddenly regulations or NIMBYs are rendered powerless. Building homes and infrastructure? Impossible. Building datacenters that will be obsolete in 4 years and abandoned just to fuel a speculation bubble? Yessir! Immediately, sir!
Frankly I stopped caring about it.
The current system we live in is unsustainable and on the verge of breaking. We're headed towards something far worse than 1929, and there's nothing we can do to stop this train.
I started to believe this when snapshot had their IPO value at something like 5 Exxons or 24 General Motors, but was primed for this belief working on energy and carbon credit derivative markets during the early 2010s, an experience that made me start believing it is all a fucking casino.
Now, I just amuse myself watching the insanity.