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I'm Done with Mullvad

moonwriting.blog

101–110 of 243 posts

Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#101
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sweden has, more than any other country, faced an astounding and shocking rise of intense violence and organized crime, with shootings in the middle of cities and cafés, all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs. You claimed two things that I took issue with: The rise of intense violence and organized crime is higher than in any other country. All those crimes are linked to people…

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Not in the news I've been reading - perhaps your news sources deserve a more critical evaluation?

Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#102
post #99
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guy, he contributed 70% of the party's funds. That's pretty strong support. And he's smart enough to keep an apparent firewall between him and the party to deflect criticism. What is a "natural connection to Sweden"?

Having a home, kids, a pet, a job and being part of a community that is integrated into the social fabric of the country. "Values" get thrown around a lot, but equality of women and acceptance of homosexuality is a big deal to Swedes, so if you shun those things then I wouldn't expect acceptance.

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Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#104
post #90
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's fair, I think tolerated is the right word. I'm tolerated for not speaking Swedish, but I would not be tolerated if I was a criminal, went directly against Swedish values loudly or was a net drain on society in some other way.

Well, this guy's party would end that toleration because you don't have Swedish ancestry. Is that good?

[dead]

Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#105
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sweden has, more than any other country, faced an astounding and shocking rise of intense violence and organized crime, with shootings in the middle of cities and cafés, all linked to people that were openly accepted through its refugee programs. You claimed two things that I took issue with: The rise of intense violence and organized crime is higher than in any other country. All those crimes are linked to people…

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You didn't link it because it was an interesting thesis, you linked it to back up your claims when I asked for a source. Which it didn't do. You still need to provide a source for your claims. You can also retract your claims of course, that's fine too.

Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#106
post #81

Personally I welcome more parties in the Swedish Riksdag. It is also interesting how they may get their seat. Örebropartiet is a local party to Örebro, but because they are getting a lot of votes in the local district election they may end up in a seat in the Riksdag, which is highly unusual.

> because they are getting a lot of votes in the local district election

Or because they're getting a lot of money through Mullvad subscriptions

Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#107

Lots of discussion surrounding what ethnonationism is... Ethnonationalism: Defined by shared ancestry, lineage, and cultural heritage. Membership is exclusive and inherited by birth, focusing on preserving a specific ethnic identity. Civic Nationalism: Defined by shared political principles, values, and laws. Membership is inclusive and open to anyone who adheres to the state's legal framework, regardless of backgrou…

"They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish"

I don't see any mention of crimes, having jobs or "being a disproportionate drain" (however you define that).

Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#108
post #100
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've learned (from these threads) the leader of the Orebro party said he wanted to expel those who commit crimes, even if they were born here (if they have no "natural" connection to Sweden). It's an extreme position. Yet it's also now two degrees moved from the founder of Mullvad; who has not expressed these opinions nor issued direct support for them specifically, nor do they imply all non-Swedes as you i…

"They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish"

I listened to it, because of these threads. (My Swedish is passive rather than spoken, understanding it isn't the problem.)

That quote is his answer to a question about people born here who commit crimes and live long-term on welfare; whether they can also be made to leave. It's not a freestanding statement about everyone born in Sweden to immigrant parents.

And the passage continues past where your excerpt stops:

"They have not become Swedes. It says Sweden in the passport, but they haven't been interested in becoming part of Sweden. That's a qualitative difference." "Have not become" only works if becoming is possible. So the criterion he's stating is failed assimilation, not ancestry; and the write-ups of the same interview describe his programme the same way: remigration for criminals and the long-term welfare-dependent.

To be fair: that's still a subjective judgement about people's inner attitudes, which I've said elsewhere in this thread is arbitrary and I'd oppose. He also says he's prepared to "walk over corpses" on this, so I'm not selling him as a moderate. Extreme, yes. Ancestry-based, no. Those are different accusations, and only one of them survives contact with sources.

Podcast (Swedish): https://aljosja.substack.com/p/satter-orebropartiet-sverige-...

I feel like people are looking for a reason to be outraged and not the shape of the actual situation. It makes me skittish.

Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#109
post #108
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish"

I listened to it, because of these threads. (My Swedish is passive rather than spoken, understanding it isn't the problem.) That quote is his answer to a question about people born here who commit crimes and live long-term on welfare; whether they can also be made to leave. It's not a freestanding statement about everyone born in Sweden to immigrant parents. And the passage continues past where your excerpt stops: "T…

Has any ruling party with this kind of view ever not significantly expanded their definition of "not ${country}ish" while in power?

Re: I'm Done with Mullvad

#110
post #95
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they are basic facts, then it should be easy to provide evidence, no? Every time anyone asks for evidence, they’re shot down. That’s unhelpful for public discourse.

People don't seem to like responding to facts. I laid out a lot of primary source citations here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48976762 For myself, my favourite restaurant was bombed and a month later four people were shot outside my door (literally on my doorstep, three died): https://www.svt.se/nyheter/lokalt/skane/sa-borjade-den-blodi... Here's some more sources: BBC, November 2023, "Spread of gang violenc…

> People don't seem to like responding to facts.

This kind of statement isn't allowed here.

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