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Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

reuters.com

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Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#71

Post by TheAceOfHearts »

There is a weird sense of entitlement that AI data centers should be allowed to get built anywhere, but I don't think the positive case has been made that it's actually that much of a net positive in many locations. The US is massive and if AI data centers are such a positive boon then it should be easy to find a place where they're actually welcome. Unlike traditional data centers where latency might be relevant, most AI data centers aren't latency sensitive so the default plan should be to build them far from major population centers. Just buy up a massive chunk of empty land in the middle of nowhere and drop all the data centers there.

There is some misinformation around resource usage, but most data center constructions aren't being fully candid and transparent with their expected resource usage either. I think the key issue is that many major constructions haven't built any trust with local communities nor have they listened to people's concerns, but they feel entitled to force through their projects anyway.

If you think that these AI data centers are great and incredibly beneficial, go advocate for your local government to bring construction to wherever it is that you live. Let people sort themselves out based on their interests.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#72

Post by phil21 »

rileymat2 wrote: post #63
fleventynine wrote: post #6

I think there's room for win-win solutions here; the cost of placating the locals is a rounding error compared to the cost of these data centers. 1. Local governments can require that if the data center peak load is 1.0GW, they must provision transmission and generation capacity for the local region of 1.2GW; the extra power can be given to the neighbors at substantial discount. 2. Construct a public swimming complex…

With low pitched data center noise does the decibel level tell the whole story? I thought it carried better and penetrated better than the db level would indicate.

What about fan noise is low pitched?

I generally agree that I would not like to live across the street from a datacenter. Having worked inside of dozens of them, I could not care less if I lived half a mile from one. Most people who live within such a distance currently do not have a clue. At that point I would not even worry about the noise from the backup generators.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#73

Post by phil21 »

galaxyLogic wrote: post #68
annzabelle wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up right by Ashburn, Virginia, which has the largest concentration of hyperscale data centers in the world. I rarely heard of organized opposition to them until they became a politically charged issue and associated with white collar layoffs. I never once noticed significant noise from any of them - they are nearly all on the opposite side of a wide road from the nearest housing, and the road is louder than th…

Data-centers should be required to provide their own clean energy plus some extra for the community. That would also create clean-energy jobs.

Why? If you want this policy make it for the entire grid, not some random consumer.

Electricity should function as a common carrier like any other utility. If you want to pay for the watts you get the watts regardless of who you happen to be.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#74

Post by phil21 »

dozerly wrote: post #15
wahern wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Spoken like someone that will not have a data center built near them at their expense in the near future

Literally have lived within 1500 feet of a datacenter. Zero of my my non techie friends ever knew.

It’s a non-issue. It’s like complaining about a vacant but well maintained warehouse next door.

If you mean living next door to a power plant? Absolutely. But that is a different topic.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#75

Post by mukbangpervert »

annzabelle wrote: post #33
consensus1 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Residential electricity rates don't get "bid up" like that. Increases typically must be approved by the government and have to be justified by expenses rather than market prices. Ashburn VA, which has more data centers than anywhere else, actually pays below US average rates.

Growing up near Ashburn makes every anti data center argument feel like crazy land. From my perspective when I lived there, they were somewhat ugly large boxes that paid county tax and raised land value. I never noticed any kind of noise from them, though they were largely on industrially zoned land right by the airport. Also gave us single digit ping. Electricity rates are below the national average. Now that I'm an…

A few things you might want to consider:

1) your example pays very substantial tax. (property taxes, plus, recently, tax on electricity use)

2) your example primarily used undesirable land.

3) your example grew slowly, allowing the power company to add capacity without a big challenge matching demand.

4) your example is in a heavily connected part of the grid, so it didn't need all of that added power generation to be local.

All of these factors led to datacenters being viewed favorably by Loudon County for most of this century.... but many (and sometimes all) of those factors aren't there for other projects. For example, there are a lot of projects where the datacenter is not paying any property tax or sales/use tax at all.

Heck, even in Loudon County, they're changing regulations to pump the brakes because the hyperscale datacenters are growing electric demand a bit too quickly for them to manage without adding a little friction.

Your anecdote about "it was good in this one county, from 1995 through 2025" cannot be reasonably extended to believe that all of these projects have similar tradeoffs.

(And I'm not even getting into the reality that "this datacenter will let me use AOL" will, of course, be viewed differently than "this datacenter will help my employer remove my job.")

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#76

Post by phil21 »

austin-cheney wrote: post #40
wahern wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I oppose the data centers because they drive up utility costs and contribute to the instability of the local electrical grid. I get pain from them and no benefits. I really don’t want most of the unprofitable AI foolishness that is being forced on us.

What instability has been attributed towards datacenter - or even any - large 24x7 predictable load industrial consumers of electricity in your area?

The exact opposite is typically true, so this is surprising to me!

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#77

Post by phil21 »

jrowen wrote: post #66
sseagull wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but is anyone actually willing to do anything about it? They did. They elected Trump. > no major populist uprising against the dismantling of the institution of the presidency Some people view the president as the only directly-elected person powerful enough to fight for them in dismantling the rest of a government that isn't working (or even actively working against them). So they implicitly want a strong presiden…

> They did. They elected Trump. I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism. > Some people view the president as the only directly-elected person powerful enough to fight for them in dismantling the rest of a government that isn't working I think consciously verbalizing a position even that nuanced and esoteric is niche, but there is certainly something to be said for peoples' susceptibility to a type of "st…

> I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism

And I would say that speaks more to your disconnect with most of US society. Very few folks actually trust activists for good reason.

Trump is like the most mild form of what is to come. The fact he got elected when he did is remarkable to me.

It only gets worse from here if things don’t change. At some point someone like him who is actually serious will be elected and then it’s basically game over.

Trump 2016 was a warning shot most folks in the chosen classes chose to ignore. Trump 2024 is something you ignore at your own peril at this point. I would be thanking the gods at the relative apathy so far if I believed that narrative.

If Trump was remotely competent we would be having entirely different conversations. There would be no option of “weathering the storm” to wait him out if so.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#78

Post by sm-silversight »

fleventynine wrote: post #6

I think there's room for win-win solutions here; the cost of placating the locals is a rounding error compared to the cost of these data centers. 1. Local governments can require that if the data center peak load is 1.0GW, they must provision transmission and generation capacity for the local region of 1.2GW; the extra power can be given to the neighbors at substantial discount. 2. Construct a public swimming complex…

Politics in the US reliably fail to arrive at reasonable conclusions like this. I don't know why.

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#79

Post by jrowen »

phil21 wrote: post #77
jrowen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did. They elected Trump. I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism. > Some people view the president as the only directly-elected person powerful enough to fight for them in dismantling the rest of a government that isn't working I think consciously verbalizing a position even that nuanced and esoteric is niche, but there is certainly something to be said for peoples' susceptibility to a type of "st…

> I would say that speaks more to apathy than activism And I would say that speaks more to your disconnect with most of US society. Very few folks actually trust activists for good reason. Trump is like the most mild form of what is to come. The fact he got elected when he did is remarkable to me. It only gets worse from here if things don’t change. At some point someone like him who is actually serious will be elect…

> And I would say that speaks more to your disconnect with most of US society. Very few folks actually trust activists for good reason.

I don't follow. What I said is in alignment with the idea that activism is out of vogue. The comment I replied to implied that electing Trump was an act of activism (or "doing something about it").

Anyway, we already had Hitler. Sadly too often, these guys pop up at the right time and wreak havoc but I would say they're outliers (and in general the world is globalizing and trending away from them).

Re: Americans are angry about data centers. Politicians are feeling the pressure

#80

Post by esseph »

phil21 wrote: post #72
rileymat2 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With low pitched data center noise does the decibel level tell the whole story? I thought it carried better and penetrated better than the db level would indicate.

What about fan noise is low pitched? I generally agree that I would not like to live across the street from a datacenter. Having worked inside of dozens of them, I could not care less if I lived half a mile from one. Most people who live within such a distance currently do not have a clue. At that point I would not even worry about the noise from the backup generators.

It's the gas turbine generators at the massive DCs causing the big issue. There are dozens of them. Not your typical historical DC/colo or even 5yr ago hyperscaler DC.
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