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The Kimi K3 Moment

stephen.bochinski.dev

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Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#531

Post by [deleted] »

tristanj wrote: post #528
newswasboring wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The china talk page points to an article about crypto currency stolen credit cards. If I believed every random X account i would have to believe too many false things. Not really convinced my guy.

The companies running these proxy stations are already: 1) Using botnets to mass-create thousands of accounts 2) Blatantly violating ToS by splitting and reselling accounts 3) Creating thousands of accounts using fraudulent identities 4) Bypassing KYC by recruiting real people in low-income countries for biometric face-matching checks for a few dollars 5) Using AI deepfakes to fake passports / verification credential…

[deleted]

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#532

Post by cobbzilla »

stymaar wrote: post #388
tristanj wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

API distillation doesn't have to explain all of K3's capabilities for it to have happened. Kimi K3 reproducibly identifies itself as Claude: https://x.com/denisewu/status/2077984660211269870 This behavior is exactly what you'd expect from a model distilled from Claude. There's a detailed analysis of K3's ambiguous identity here: https://github.com/rgreenblatt/which_claude_is_k3/blob/main/... This analysis observed K3…

> Kimi K3 reproducibly identifies itself as Claude It could also be have been trained from collected response datasets. Claude got caught several time responding it was ChatGPT or even Deepseek and I don't think Anthropic has been distealling DeepSeek. > This behavior is exactly what you'd expect from a model distilled from Claude. The opposite actually. If they wanted to distill Claude without getting caught they co…

> they could just use a regex to change Claude to Kimi in their distillation pipeline!

Jean-Kimi Van Damme would like to have a word with you.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#533

Post by spaceman_2020 »

anon373839 wrote: post #223
nickysielicki wrote: post #33

Regardless of whether they achieved parity via distillation, or whether they got here via independently constructing a model from scratch, it was always going to end this way for the frontier American labs. Distillation “attacks” are not attacks. The frontier labs “distilled” all existing human written knowledge into their models, there was always going to be a second class lab that would distill that model into a ch…

I strongly agree with the premise that distillation is not an “attack”. But that said: K3 is not a distilled version of Fable or Sol. Fable has been barely available and Sol was just released! Moreover, K3 is superior to both models in some domains, according to user scoring on the Arena. API distillation can’t give you these results anyway. All it is useful for is bootstrapping RL in new domains to get past the “col…

The entire debate about distilled vs not distilled is just academic. As an end user, I don’t give a crap how the model was trained as long as it does the job affordably enough

I see all of AI as theft anyway so it makes no ontological difference if the theft was from a human or from another AI

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#534

Post by spaceman_2020 »

kamranjon wrote: post #248
nickysielicki wrote: post #33

Regardless of whether they achieved parity via distillation, or whether they got here via independently constructing a model from scratch, it was always going to end this way for the frontier American labs. Distillation “attacks” are not attacks. The frontier labs “distilled” all existing human written knowledge into their models, there was always going to be a second class lab that would distill that model into a ch…

The fact that API based distillation is even a conversation right now makes me feel like the U.S. has their heads so far in the sand that it’s not really excusable. These Chinese labs are producing novel models, publishing their techniques and sharing their open weights and the first topic of conversation is how they stole from U.S. AI labs. Setting aside the fact that it doesn’t make any feasible sense to do API dis…

[dead]

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#535

Post by tristanj »

anon373839 wrote: post #498
tristanj wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation strikes me as morally ambiguous. The resellers are: 1) selling Anthropic's products at a 95% discount and redirecting Anthropic's own customers to themselves. A customer is far less inclined to buy directly from Anthropic when a reseller is offering an identical product for 10x less. This situation is highly similar to internet piracy. 2) keeping the token logs from Anthropic's products and selling them…

May I ask you a personal question? What is motivating you to take up the frontier labs' cause in this way? Not a rhetorical question. For my part, I'll happily disclose that I have an axe to grind. I think the major AI labs are an aggressive form of a cancer that's been ravaging our society. I want to see them fail, of course -- but more than that, I want to see the public develop an immune response to this. I just c…

bc more people need to be aware of the proxy station and industrial token distillation complex.

many people i've replied to refuse to believe this is going on.

once you realize what's actually happening, and that you can get Chinese-lab-subsidized tokens at a >95% discount, why would you ever pay full price for overpriced APIs?

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#536

Post by gverrilla »

petilon wrote: post #217
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China never allow US AI in China, so they HAVE to build Chinese equivalents... US immigration policy isn't a big factor. China's got 1.8B people. If you don't think they've got the talent to pull this off, even if a lot of it leaves to live elsewhere, you're naive. No one uses Baidu, but they built their own Google, and it's good. They built their own Facebooks and Instagrams. The US isn't the only place in the world…

"China can draw on a talent pool of 1.3 billion people, but the United States can draw on a talent pool of 7 billion and recombine them in a diverse culture that enhances creativity in a way that ethnic Han nationalism cannot." --Lee Kuan Yew, former prime minister of Singapore.

[flagged]

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#537

Post by j-bos »

j-bos wrote: post #232
SwellJoe wrote: post #8

I tried Kimi K3 on a task I've done with every other model I use regularly ( https://swelljoe.com/post/i-let-every-agent-implement-its-ow... ) and found it chewed a lot longer on the problem and ate up almost the entirety of a 5 hour usage limit on their $19 plan. I only have the $20 plan from OpenAI and the same task, with a lot of the same implementation details as Kimi Code, only took a few minutes and consumed al…

Aren't they still locking reasoning to "max" pending adjustments to support shorter reasoning levels.

Found it!

> At launch, Kimi K3 will use max thinking effort by default, with low- and high-effort modes to be introduced in subsequent updates https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#538

Post by bel8 »

Sammi wrote: post #526
bel8 wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Continued how? I have switched most of my personal LLM coding to DeepSeek V4 Flash since it was launched. And now 100% to a mix of K3 / DeepSeek V4 / MiMo 2.5. It's nice not being called a terrorist just because I told it to reverse engineer something. At work they are still hemorrhaging money to Western providers due to enterprise contracts but I foresee they won't renew for much longer. Specially of the upcoming fi…

Anecdotes. Where's the data?

https://openrouter.ai/rankings#top-models

Chinese models dwarf USA models usage. And now there's a Fable/5.6 alternative. The gap widens.

Now go and ask for your GP poster for their data as well. Unless you're only interested in data that supports your bias ofc.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#539

Post by vannevar »

The right analogy here is not the auto industry, but the music industry. Regulation might "win", but margins will be driven down to commodity levels. That is not the assumption that current US AI company valuations are based on.

Re: The Kimi K3 Moment

#540

Post by tom2026hn »

timmytokyo wrote: post #310
HarHarVeryFunny wrote: post #269

According to OpenAI's "head of strategic futures": 1) Kimi 3 is a "very good model" 2) It's performance can NOT be explained by distillation 3) The US government should create FUD to stop US corporations from using it (so they use OpenAI instead) https://x.com/deanwball/status/2078133895766114412

Fascinating take from OpenAI. It really gives the lie to the idea that they see AI leading to a better life for all. "One probable outcome of an open-weight-model-dominant world is full AI communism, which is precisely what China proposes: rather than a market product, AI is a 'public good' which will ultimately be provided by the state as a kind of 'digital public infrastructure.' This future strikes me as a dystopi…

Economists at DeepMind believe that if AI were treated as a public good—like water or electricity—with profits distributed across the entire market, ordinary people would simply be able to invest in mutual funds.
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