This was always where this was heading, but we got here much faster than expected. Once western governments declare it to be a "national security" risk for citizens to have access to open-weight frontier models, and once they classify using these models as acts of terrorism, what will that world be like? Will using Kimi K3 come to be like how napster was in the olden days? Everybody knew it was technically illegal, b…
> Or it will be like cannabis, where a guy in the neighborhood will low key rent you metered access to the 8x5090 rig in his basement he cobbled together from parts on ebay? https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iNotXHO8NWU
The Kimi K3 Moment
521–530 of 644 posts
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#522Earlier quoted context omitted.
The desire to accuse China of just copying is like 20 years out of date. It’s been wrong since some people on HN were in diapers. People are going to be gobsmacked when, in our lifetime, China becomes a world power comparable to the U.S. Probably still poorer per capita, but at Spain/Italy levels, not third world country levels. And they’ll be shocked at the implications of that on the world economy, migration patter…
I am still shocked Spain/Italy and USA are considered 'first world' countries. We are not in 70s or even 90s anymore. I've been to China in 2011 also thinking I am visiting some huge village but...that was the most futuristic trip I ever had. I was surprised by the penetration level of the mobile devices - everything had a QR code, you could buy/sell/send money, pay services all with a single tap on a phone.
China has pursued a phased approach to growth. Instead of trying to pull everyone up at once, it’s trying to get top tier cities to a high level of development before moving to other cities. Shanghai already has a GDP per capita (PPP) that’s comparable to Madrid. But there are provincial capitals with almost 10 million people that are less than half or less than a quarter of that.
Visiting cities is also a misleading way to compare the U.S. in particular to anywhere else. I have family in town in Mississippi that has less than 10,000 people. But the town has a household income over 60% of the national household income. Cost of living adjusted, they’re about as well off as someone in a top tier city. Someone with a median household income can afford a newly renovated, 4 bedroom, 2,500 square foot house.
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#523Earlier quoted context omitted.
The situation strikes me as morally ambiguous. The resellers are: 1) selling Anthropic's products at a 95% discount and redirecting Anthropic's own customers to themselves. A customer is far less inclined to buy directly from Anthropic when a reseller is offering an identical product for 10x less. This situation is highly similar to internet piracy. 2) keeping the token logs from Anthropic's products and selling them…
May I ask you a personal question? What is motivating you to take up the frontier labs' cause in this way? Not a rhetorical question. For my part, I'll happily disclose that I have an axe to grind. I think the major AI labs are an aggressive form of a cancer that's been ravaging our society. I want to see them fail, of course -- but more than that, I want to see the public develop an immune response to this. I just c…
I suspect OP is the infamous Dario. We found his HN "anon" username.
That's the only explanation.
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#524Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've been in China in 2015 and like anywhere else in the world it was very mixed: some urban areas like central NY or central Madrid and Milan (or much shinier) and some rural areas like 200 year ago, but inevitably with electronics. Basically in every country of the world you can travel one hour from big cities and get in a place deep in the fields or the woods with very different needs and dynamics from the city. T…
I don’t know any cities in Americas that is comparable to Shanghai or even Japan in term of transportation or convenient
Americans optimize for hyper-individualistic convenience. The average one-way commute in Dallas, Texas is under 30 minutes. The average in Tokyo is 48-50 minutes. And the guy in Dallas goes to work in a perfectly climate controlled bubble where he doesn’t have to interact with anyone else, while the person in Tokyo is crammed into a rush hour subway car.
I love Tokyo too (never been to Shanghai), because I’m an asian collectivist at heart. But you can’t really compare across cultures when they’re optimizing for different things. Americans are very wealthy and spend a lot of their wealth optimizing to never have to be near other people.
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#525Earlier quoted context omitted.
> They often use stolen credit cards, educational discounts, or resold compute credits to acquire them at essentially zero cost. They're not always paying customers. Yeah but where are you getting this from? I've seen this claim many places but only as pure speculation. No proof, just bold faced assertions.
https://www.chinatalk.media/p/how-to-buy-cheap-claude-tokens... https://x.com/yan5xu/status/2029743983522631698 https://x.com/howie_serious/status/2031620123413590471 https://x.com/Vincent_AINotes/status/2046434813125763527
The china talk page points to an article about crypto currency stolen credit cards. If I believed every random X account i would have to believe too many false things. Not really convinced my guy.
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#526Earlier quoted context omitted.
This seems like a replay of what happened with DeepSeek. They put out v3, or whichever one it was, and everyone said it was over for US companies... then everything continued on.
Continued how? I have switched most of my personal LLM coding to DeepSeek V4 Flash since it was launched. And now 100% to a mix of K3 / DeepSeek V4 / MiMo 2.5. It's nice not being called a terrorist just because I told it to reverse engineer something. At work they are still hemorrhaging money to Western providers due to enterprise contracts but I foresee they won't renew for much longer. Specially of the upcoming fi…
Anecdotes. Where's the data?
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#527I have a nagging suspicion that most/all of those people spending a lot of time generating code using LLMs and blogging about it were not really very influential or inspired coders before, and are now raised to stardom of sorts due to the ability to generate some "meh" stuff of marginal significance with the fancy new machinery.
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#528Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.chinatalk.media/p/how-to-buy-cheap-claude-tokens... https://x.com/yan5xu/status/2029743983522631698 https://x.com/howie_serious/status/2031620123413590471 https://x.com/Vincent_AINotes/status/2046434813125763527
The china talk page points to an article about crypto currency stolen credit cards. If I believed every random X account i would have to believe too many false things. Not really convinced my guy.
The companies running these proxy stations are already:
1) Using botnets to mass-create thousands of accounts
2) Blatantly violating ToS by splitting and reselling accounts
3) Creating thousands of accounts using fraudulent identities
4) Bypassing KYC by recruiting real people in low-income countries for biometric face-matching checks for a few dollars
5) Using AI deepfakes to fake passports / verification credentials
But if you believe that payments fraud is the one ethical line these syndicates refuse to cross, there's not much else I can say to convince you.
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#529I wonder if this is this just the law of diminishing returns at play?
My thinking being, it's been a few months since I thought the code generation machine was the problem, rather than my interactions with the machine. A month is a long time in AI.
What I mean is, these things are about as smart as they need to be already for the average SWE. I don't think this is true for those solving the really big questions like curing cancer.
Re: The Kimi K3 Moment
#530Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even if it were slightly more expensive, it's still a better sales proposition for a company if they can run it from a hardware provider with their own locked down VPS and ensure that their IP is protected and that their data isn't being stolen or trained on. The fact that it's a little cheaper is icing on the cake. Honestly, it's the only sane way for the market to move. The big labs are obviously stealing our data.…
I mean, AWS Bedrock (with the exception of Fable) gives enterprises the same assurances (but again, with the exception of Fable, which is explicitly listed as requiring data egress [or exfil, depending on how you look at it] outside of your contractual AWS security boundary).
It gives you "assurances" that can be broken. They could still be clean-rooming your prompts like Anthropic does. The only way to be certain is if they don't have access to your data to begin with.