I'd like to think it's not meant to make life better for a regular nurse, but rather to weed out the abusive ones? At least that's how I see it from my flawed, post-communist country perspective.
Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
51–60 of 401 posts
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#52While I'm sympathetic to the frictions of newly introduced AI and the fact that AI in healthcare, especially calls, can seem very uncaring, between the lines the article reads a bit like the typical union complaining about modern tech that reshapes their work, given the multiple mentions of protests, nurses union, etc. Given how healthcare is one of these sectors that seems to relentlessly resist efficiency increases…
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Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#53This problem with workplace AI interfering with nurses ability to manage healthcare obligations for their clients is not confined to Kaiser. UHC has also introduced the AI surveillance tools and are using it to do similar things.
It is true that Despotism structures major failing was the scaling cost of surveillance necessitated to differentiate fact from fictional narratives.
Truth is most nurses care for people having the worst day of their lives. =3
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#54There's a reason that among Americans, telekinesis and creationism are more mainstream positions than sloptimism. About 14% of Americans think AI is moving us towards a better world. About 17% are creationists. About 26% believe in Telekinesis.
With all of that in mind I have to wonder whether there is overlap between these response groups and if so, how much. Could be zero to 100% without more information.
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#55What these complaints always boil down to is autonomy and control. The more centralized an organization, the more it relies on metrics to understand and exert control over its employees and customers. People started hating tech right around the time metrics became popular. I don't think it's a coincidence. AI just accelerates the trend. The problem is the misidentification of AI as the issue. As long as we don't unde…
Everyone pushing tools/AI during initial development/investment and building its demand in the cultural discourse always highlights its ability for good.
Now, like many tools, the majority of those selling AI to make money off of large enterprise sell its ability to increase productivity, efficiency, compliance. Either to make money or to minimise risk. And so like you say, they just become tools to make these metrics move or report them at higher granularity. And often there is either a lack of imagination or a willful ignorance of the perverse outcomes with relationship to humans because they are in service of the organisation not it's employees.
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you employ a few hundred nurses, how exactly would you evaluate how well they show empathy? You can't rely on asking the customer. When they're upset (they often are in these calls), they'll lean towards the negative regardless. I don't know how well these AIs evaluate, but if they're even a little bit good, it makes sense to use it to screen for outliers, then have a human listen to those outliers and judge.
> how exactly would you evaluate how well they show empathy? How would you want yours rated? By someone you have communicated with, or some data centre somewhere?
By a knowledgeable/skilled person who listens to the call. (Which the AI solution provides).
I suppose you could do that with the survey as well. It'd be an interesting study to see which is more reliable.
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn't that the insurance company whose CEO was murdered because of the terrible quality of care they delivered?
Yes it is. Somehow that might appear to be incentive to improve quality of care but maybe their corporate culture is a bad fit for quality.
Psychopaths don't care about other peoples pain. Some MBA only care about their own ego, power, and money. They do well in corporate cultures that reward parasitic relationships with customers. =3
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you employ a few hundred nurses, how exactly would you evaluate how well they show empathy? You can't rely on asking the customer. When they're upset (they often are in these calls), they'll lean towards the negative regardless. I don't know how well these AIs evaluate, but if they're even a little bit good, it makes sense to use it to screen for outliers, then have a human listen to those outliers and judge.
"You can't ask people because the experience is so universally terrible they'll just tell you it's terrible" isn't really an argument against surveys, it just means you need more specific questions they'll be fired up to answer
Let me suggest the following: Ask the nurses if they want the customer to rate them.
A significant fraction of the calls they answer are patients shouting at them because of:
- Long wait times
- They don't like their doctor
- They don't like the advice they're given (sorry, but we're not going to book you as a high priority appointment if all you can tell me is you have a headache. Sorry, we're not going to prescribe a narcotic for a scraped knee.)
- Several reasons that have nothing to do with the nurse, but the customer will still blame the nurse.
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#59Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, you can rely on the customers. They're the only ones that can tell you.
But they don't want to, because figuring that out is your job as a supervisor. If you outsource that work to customers/patients, you'll end up with the car dealership model, where the sales rep begs you to give a 10 on every single question including on the interior design so they don't get fired. That's the part most of this discussion misses. Supervisors exist for a reason. Congrats on your flat org structure, you…
> where the sales rep begs you to give a 10 on every single question including on the interior design so they don't get fired.
Oh yes, and the nurses did employ strategies like that pre-LLM (don't know if they still do). They had to be very strategic about it (you can't just say "Rate me a 10.")