If you think using a machine to evaluate how well a human is showing empathy is a good idea, you probably shouldn't have any position of power.
Power is based on wealth extraction, not merit.
Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
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Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#22Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. It’s going to be very improbable that these statements are true.
> Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them.
Where and how is that determined? I.e., any references to back that up?
And you can't in one breath say they have the best healthcare but then say their employees' reports of their experience are unreliable.
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#23This problem with workplace AI interfering with nurses ability to manage healthcare obligations for their clients is not confined to Kaiser. UHC has also introduced the AI surveillance tools and are using it to do similar things.
Isn't that the insurance company whose CEO was murdered because of the terrible quality of care they delivered?
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#24If you think using a machine to evaluate how well a human is showing empathy is a good idea, you probably shouldn't have any position of power.
If you employ a few hundred nurses, how exactly would you evaluate how well they show empathy? You can't rely on asking the customer. When they're upset (they often are in these calls), they'll lean towards the negative regardless. I don't know how well these AIs evaluate, but if they're even a little bit good, it makes sense to use it to screen for outliers, then have a human listen to those outliers and judge.
"You can't ask people because the experience is so universally terrible they'll just tell you it's terrible" isn't really an argument against surveys, it just means you need more specific questions they'll be fired up to answer
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#25Maybe healthcare shouldn’t be primarily for profit?
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#26While I'm sympathetic to the frictions of newly introduced AI and the fact that AI in healthcare, especially calls, can seem very uncaring, between the lines the article reads a bit like the typical union complaining about modern tech that reshapes their work, given the multiple mentions of protests, nurses union, etc.
Given how healthcare is one of these sectors that seems to relentlessly resist efficiency increases and is the prime example of Baumol's cost disease, I think any developed country with a costly healthcare system needs to do these AI experiments. The current versions will be shit, but the only way out is through if you still want to provide affordable care.
I honestly have no doubt that AI going forward will be able to do a good job at triaging via calls and also being empathetic about it. But of course it needs careful experimentation.
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#27If you think using a machine to evaluate how well a human is showing empathy is a good idea, you probably shouldn't have any position of power.
If you employ a few hundred nurses, how exactly would you evaluate how well they show empathy? You can't rely on asking the customer. When they're upset (they often are in these calls), they'll lean towards the negative regardless. I don't know how well these AIs evaluate, but if they're even a little bit good, it makes sense to use it to screen for outliers, then have a human listen to those outliers and judge.
> how exactly would you evaluate how well they show empathy?
How would you want yours rated? By someone you have communicated with, or some data centre somewhere?
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#28If you think using a machine to evaluate how well a human is showing empathy is a good idea, you probably shouldn't have any position of power.
Power is based on wealth extraction, not merit.
isn't that exactly what a class terrified of the guillotine would want underclasses to believe?
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#29Kaiser has some of the best healthcare outcomes in the country/world due to their protocols and how good they are in ensuring adherence to them. It’s going to be very improbable that these statements are true.
Compared to what?
Re: Kaiser nurses say AI, surveillance are making their jobs and patient care worse
#30> "Nurses fear that having long calls can lead to bad performance reviews" > A company spokesperson said, "Kaiser Permanente does not use Average Handle Time to assess agent performance" So uh, average time wasn't raised as a concern, calls beyond a certain threshold was. I wish this semantic discrepancy was better highlighted in the article.
I have some inside information (but not much!) They claim they do not use average handle time, but it is very common to get called into meetings to discuss why they spent a lot of time on some calls. The nurses get defensive (by definition - they have to justify the time used - it is a defense). They also do get called into meetings if their average handle time is large. It may still be true they don't use it for eva…
It might not be a written metric, but do you actually believe that someone isn't being evaluated partially based on how many times they've had to talk to them about issues?
I highly doubt it. If this is the reason your manager knows who you are, you are absolutely going to be judged on it. It doesn't really matter what the policy says.
And the nurses absolutely feel like they are being punished for it. Just like having to consistently remind HR that your "absence problem" is due to covered FMLA leave - they know who you are because they've had to talk to you about absenteeism. In a call center of 500 people, it isn't likely they remember that you had issues because of their faulty systems.