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The human-in-the-loop is tired

pydantic.dev

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Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#171

Post by dare944 »

AyanamiKaine wrote: post #144
thinkindie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it all depends on your personal driver: personally I rather see a product I built in whatever way used by ever growing number of people because they find it useful. It means that the time I spent working on that helped other people solving a problem (hopefully). That’s why a was always keen on cutting some corners when and where necessary in order to think about the user first and the code beauty second. Of c…

It seems to be a big fight between the I am interested in the end result and I am interested in the process. Some people think the same regarding art, they dont see art in the process only in the end result. I believe no one is right, but also no one is wrong.

Well, a large swath of both sides are wrong in that they insist theirs is the only valid perspective.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#172

Post by queenkjuul »

xtracto wrote: post #150
imp0cat wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your point, but: > "If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. " Is that really true though with an LLM? I don't think so.

Oh but it really is. An LLM is no magic wand. It's a model as its name rigthly indicates. Those of us who have worked in modeling and simulations know two principles of models: - garbage in, garbage out - all models are wrong, some are useful. Point being, usually when "the model is wrong" it's because we put the wrong input (too complicated prompt for the model?) or something similar. Its just a machine, like a meat…

I really think LLMs are capable of screwing up good input. They're not deterministic like a meat grinder

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#174

Post by j1elo »

dnemmers wrote: post #146
j1elo wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're just getting used to the invention of the washing machine. All clothes are equally cleansed on average, with good enough results even if afterwards some particular pieces need a bit of extra care, while before we had to clean them all one by one and paying attention to minutia and details on each piece's needs. Nowadays you just control a couple buttons and hope for the best. Better to find joy in other parts o…

Disagree. The 'washing machine' problem, was solved decades ago. Improvements in detergent allows basically anything to be washed with cold water. Added 'features' from late model machines do very little to improve the experience, and instead drive up purchase price, and decrease lifespan. It's weird that so many pro-LLM arguments rely on bad analogies of other technologies that aren't perfect, and say, "We're not pe…

I think it's not as bad of an analogy. Where you dedicated time and perfectionism for each piece of clothing (line of code), now you push a button and get them all done for you.

You mention improvements on how good clothes are washed for you, after decades of technical progress. Oitside of the analogy, we are literally living through that, but in 10x speed on a day to day basis regarding how well AI writes code.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#175

Post by bluefirebrand »

throw1234567891 wrote: post #134
DanielHB wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't understand what the OP said, your brain can get a intrinsic reward from seeing users use your LLM work. But LLM remove all the little intrinsic rewards from coding elegant systems to get to the point where you see users using your work. It is all about the destination now where it used to be about the journey and the destination.

I think you don't understand that they understand. For them it's the destination that matters. Their journey is different.

They are admitting pretty directly that even they don't value their own journey only their destination

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#176

Post by queenkjuul »

applfanboysbgon wrote: post #7

> The honest truth > That loss is real and it's worth naming I think I will not heed the first sentence and bear with this. What motivates people to do this? What do they get out of prompting Claude for some vapid "thought piece" and spamming it on the internet?

I read "honest" and thought, "look at me, i can't even read the word honest without thinking it's Claude"

Then i read "is real and it's worth naming" and thought god dammit, these assholes actually did use Claude

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#178

Post by deaux »

encyclopedism wrote: post #130
hdjrudni wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't even want to put 'my' code or apps out into the wild anymore. I've built a a few things I think are useful and I'm using myself but I'm afraid it'll just get called slop or my only users will be bots. What's the point. So I don't get the joy out of sharing it nor the joy of the achievement. But I've widdled down what I thought was an endless backlog of features to nearly zero, I guess that's something.

If it's code built by an LLM it's almost inherently uninteresting in that 'anyone' can also generate the same slop. Beyond the initial novelty the 'achievement' really doesn't stretch that far. Your slop, my slop, their slop it's all 'slop' and no one can really care about slop. The novelty is wearing thin fast

Of course not, this makes no sense. It's the opposite, most of LLM generated apps are indeed uninteresting, yet it's not inherent at all. Most photos, most drawings, most human-written articles are uninteresting and have been so since forever. Nothing about that is inherent. And in the exact same manner, no, others can't generate the same thing. They physically can, but that has never been a barrier.

If I make uninteresting art, it's not because I physically lack the ability to use my hands in a manner that would create interesting art. It's because I can't come up with the ideas, and lack the taste, to produce interesting art.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#179

Post by sashank_1509 »

misja111 wrote: post #88
sashank_1509 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were probably just inexperienced in coding. AI has completely bridged that gap. Someone with a 1000 hours coding experience has almost the same speed as someone with 10 hours of experience who gets stuck on syntax like you said. In return, there is not much of mastery anymore. Being a craftsman is a deeply human desire that AI is destroying, not sure if this is a fun future to look forward to.

Lol, I have 42 years of experience in coding, of which 29 paid. I learned to program when I was 14 years old, studied computer science and went to work in IT. I'm 56 years old now and working as a tech lead. > Being a craftsman is a deeply human desire that AI is destroying, not sure if this is a fun future to look forward to. AI is giving me back the feeling I had when I first learned to program, when I was 14. At 1…

> If what you like is creating things, AI lets you do it at 10 times the speed.

I’ve heard some version of this take many times, all I can say is that is not what being a craftsman is. Ands that’s fine I suppose for some people and not fine for others.

The best analogy is think of a musician. As he gets better, he learns to play better tunes, and develop better tunes. Now in the future (not too distant), let us say he just needs to prompt an LLM and say make this melody a bit longer, a lower pitch etc, he is effectively making music but it is no longer the same process, and I think the joy is gone for a majority of the people, though I’m sure some exceptions will exist who prefer just prompting an AI to generate music.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#180

Post by thinkindie »

DanielHB wrote: post #127
thinkindie wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it all depends on your personal driver: personally I rather see a product I built in whatever way used by ever growing number of people because they find it useful. It means that the time I spent working on that helped other people solving a problem (hopefully). That’s why a was always keen on cutting some corners when and where necessary in order to think about the user first and the code beauty second. Of c…

You don't understand what the OP said, your brain can get a intrinsic reward from seeing users use your LLM work. But LLM remove all the little intrinsic rewards from coding elegant systems to get to the point where you see users using your work. It is all about the destination now where it used to be about the journey and the destination.

I know exactly what he means - and as I said it all depends on personal drivers/motivation etc etc. take doctors: some starts the profession to make money other to care about people. Both categories can live under the same roof in a hospital.
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