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The human-in-the-loop is tired

pydantic.dev

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Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#51

Post by carimura »

xtracto wrote: post #45

>It's also, frankly, quite lonely. Programming with an LLM is an intensely solitary activity. > You and the machine, going back and forth, refining and prompting and reviewing. I just want to comment on this. Maybe im part of some spectrum, but building stuff with AI in that "solitary mode" ive found it really enjoyable. It takes me too the times 30 years ago when I was a 14 year old writing my own games on Basic and…

Ya my memories are similar: ~12 years old building BBS's late into the night, then after college first startup, programming from midnight to 5am "in the flow" - nobody around or online. Just me and the problem at hand.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#52

Post by onion2k »

ameliaquining wrote: post #50
onion2k wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you switch on the 'Supporting Evidence' on that site, it seems to be basing it's opinion on three things: - Use a descriptive triad of "reviewing, directing, and course" (it incorrectly misunderstood 'course correcting'). That's not common in writing but humans do do it occasionally. - Using the word 'thoughtful'. I don't understand that as evidence of AI. - Using the words 'Book Apart' together, which would be a…

Pangram's "Supporting Evidence" feature is misleading and you should ignore it. It's entirely separate from the classifier that determines whether text is AI; it just takes text that's already been classified as AI and looks for some hardcoded AI tells in it. I kind of wish they'd get rid of it, but nontechnical users really like it. The classifier itself has a very low rate of false positives: https://bfi.uchicago.e…

It's so tempting to drop the text of that paper into Pangram. :)

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#54

Post by magnio »

> He described waking up to thirty PRs every morning, each one pulled overnight by someone's AI, and needing to make snap judgment calls on every single one. The temptation to delegate the review itself to an AI was enormous. But, as he put it: "at that point, what am I still doing here?".

It's so funny and somber to see programmers having an existential crisis when they get a glimpse of what work is like for business managers, the demographics many programmers detest.

I am also guilty of holding the business majors in contempt back in college, and now here I am, doing what they are doing in office in a much more indifferent and unenjoyable manner. At least I don't get into trouble with HR from calling my agents a stupid fuck (yet).

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#55

Post by Barbing »

tharkun__ wrote: post #43
postsantum wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's not" - 3 matches Dashline - present Yes, it's AI-written

This very well may be AI written. Then again, the stuff our PMs output, all pre-AI, now would all qualify as "AI written". There are certain writing styles, which even if you wrote them all yourself, most people will now attribute to AI. The all-too-common em-dash, yes sure. Guess what, it's a thing that was actually taught as "the thing to use if you write properly". So guess what lots of folks consciously put into…

I’m sure—pretty sure—we can use em-dashes w/o setting off the slop bells.

And try to substitute them, you may; but the bell might still ring.

(Yeah it stinks we have to adapt to avoid sounding like a model, especially for the best writers who were probably ripped off a lot more than the rest of us.)

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#56

Post by superxpro12 »

ptrl600 wrote: post #47

I don't understand how people are using AI. A lot of the time, what I want to build, doesn't have a succinct English sentence to describe it. If I describe the user requirement I just get a Fisher-Price toy thing that kind of ignores most of the adjectives and adverbs in my requirement. So I'd have to prompt with a big list of specs and algorithms for the specific thing I want. Then what's the point?

Because when i have to build the 12th throwaway gui for some thing at work... i just want to get past it and onto the fun stuff.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#57

Post by spiderxxxx »

ptrl600 wrote: post #47

I don't understand how people are using AI. A lot of the time, what I want to build, doesn't have a succinct English sentence to describe it. If I describe the user requirement I just get a Fisher-Price toy thing that kind of ignores most of the adjectives and adverbs in my requirement. So I'd have to prompt with a big list of specs and algorithms for the specific thing I want. Then what's the point?

I've not had that problem, but I have 35 years of programming experience, so I can describe exactly what I want. Maybe that's the difference. It doesn't have to be a single sentence, I write a whole paragraph or even pseudocode most of it and tell it to use the pseudocode as comments for the code it will produce. It'll give me a plan and I'll refine the plan until it seems to be what I want. Then we'll get it to start writing and I'll give it feedback and keep it on track. If it tends to overthink a problem, I'll interrupt it and have it talk over the issue, until it gets a clear understanding of what I want. You have to treat it like a coworker more than just a code monkey.

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#58

Post by normie3000 »

samplatt wrote: post #19
postsantum wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's not" - 3 matches Dashline - present Yes, it's AI-written

"It's not" only has two matches; the third is "It's noticable". The other two are a whole paragraph dedicated to "it's not X, it's Y" which is a little more than you'd normally expect. Firefox doesn't seem to discriminate between em-dashes and hyphens using ctrl-F so I'm not sure about those. Having said that the tone REEKS of AI generation, so meh.

Would AI have spelt "noticeable" correctly?

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#59

Post by bluefirebrand »

anon373839 wrote: post #28
hahahaa wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is AI, but I bet it has been through editing/review to match a corporate style. LLMs were trained on this.

The writing style, if not AI, is at least a bit tryhard. Turning to the substance of the article: why do people feel the need to run this fast? I have certainly experimented with letting coding agents run amok. The first few times you try it, it feels like a superpower. Then you start examining the icky choices they made in a codebase that is now a dense forest. Then you have to expend a bunch of effort beating it ba…

> why do people feel the need to run this fast

Because if they don't they feel like they will be replaced by someone who will

Re: The human-in-the-loop is tired

#60

Post by imp0cat »

xtracto wrote: post #45

>It's also, frankly, quite lonely. Programming with an LLM is an intensely solitary activity. > You and the machine, going back and forth, refining and prompting and reviewing. I just want to comment on this. Maybe im part of some spectrum, but building stuff with AI in that "solitary mode" ive found it really enjoyable. It takes me too the times 30 years ago when I was a 14 year old writing my own games on Basic and…

I get your point, but:

> "If it makes a mistake, it's because I screwed it up. "

Is that really true though with an LLM? I don't think so.

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