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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

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Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#721

Post by rw2 »

bigyabai wrote: post #714
rw2 wrote: post #713

The amount of scientific talent in China is astounding, also it's easier to be a fast follower than a innovator. Instead of limiting models and debating ethics like Anthropic, the edge lab should focus on lengthening the lead on China. The 2027 Chinese model could be one that beats the US.

> Instead of limiting models and debating ethics This is what liability management looks like for proprietary models. If it's not out in the open, then you can be held directly accountable for generating the tokens that kill people. They're having these conversations to avoid being held liable, not because they're offended by people dying because of AI.

[flagged]

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#722

Post by ilaksh »

easygenes wrote: post #117
csomar wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems the subsidized era is nearing its end and we'll see a convergence on API pricing before a pulling of subscriptions pricing.

That’s not what this indicates. This is the biggest and most expensive to serve, and most capable open weights model yet. They’re just pricing it in line with capabilities. Kimi also offers generous subscriptions. Subs aren’t going anywhere. Think of subs like running an insurance business. There might be some users you lose money on (ones who max out their weekly quota without fail), but they’re managed such that th…

It's as good as gpt 5.6 sol and _half_ the cost..

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#723

Post by sourcecodeplz »

revolvingthrow wrote: post #440

According to artificialanalysis, cost per task is $0.94, which is almost the same as $1.04 of gpt 5.6 sol max (fable is most expensive by far, at $2.75). Things like glm 5.2 max cost roughly half that. The model certainly sounds extremely impressive for something not from openai/antrophic, but the price makes it a mediocre product. Instruction following seems lower than I’d like, too. OTOH scores on agentic stuff see…

so it is ~ same price as openai, same score, but somehow it is mediocre?

edit: not to mention being an open model that you can host yourself

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#724

Post by nmfisher »

markasoftware wrote: post #124
tw1984 wrote: post #9

> Among the models tested, its overall intelligence ranks second only to Claude Fable 5 and GPT-5.6 Sol. > The full model weights of Kimi K3 will be released in the coming days. More details on the architecture, training, and evaluation will be published together with the Kimi K3 technical report. https://platform.kimi.ai/docs/guide/kimi-k3-quickstart

They've removed the paragraph about releasing model weights.

Still there for me: "The full model weights will be released by July 27, 2026"

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#725

Post by pitched »

katzenversteher wrote: post #718
simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

Hey Simon, I noticed one thing all LLMs are currently pretty bad at and maybe we could create a benchmark from it. Let an LLM play the role of a dungeon master and tell it to strictly stay in the script/story and only allow realistic player actions. You will notice that they are easily brought off track. E.g. - Tell the LLM that you as a player noticed a strange glow in an NPCs eyes -> the NPC becomes an enemy. - In…

An approach I like to help solving this is antagonistic or review agents. The first agent decides that eye glows turn NPCs into enemies, the second agent is fully dedicated to deciding if that is valid. If the review fails, it leaves notes and the original agent tries again.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#726

Post by bigyabai »

rw2 wrote: post #721
bigyabai wrote: post #714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Instead of limiting models and debating ethics This is what liability management looks like for proprietary models. If it's not out in the open, then you can be held directly accountable for generating the tokens that kill people. They're having these conversations to avoid being held liable, not because they're offended by people dying because of AI.

[flagged]

That's reaching speculation, and a hell of a hypothetical to base your entire argument on.

The "edge AI labs" are both begging for more regulation and a stronger federal presence in their development. Their desire is to be embedded in the killing machine where the monopoly on violence applies, and then abdicate themselves in civil suits when they're held accountable for ethical dilemmas. To get away with it, they have to limit the average Joe and upsell the government the full product.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#727

Post by seydor »

softwaredoug wrote: post #478

So Chinese labs are driving essentially towards commodotized intelligence. Even if its a few months behind the US. Is this a classic 'commoditize my compliment' situation? They want to sell the hardware and infrastructure behind AI and make the software part not the value driver / moat? I can see it. But also even two Chinese labs sinking 100s of millions USD into training isn't exactly commoditization. It's still a…

something without a moat can only be a commodity. i think US money knows that, and waiting for the business which will be built on top of them.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#728

Post by -1 »

anigbrowl wrote: post #702

This might be the most impressive website generator demo I've seen: https://macos27.kimi.page Context from the person who prompted it: https://x.com/mweinbach/status/2077827886149439547

manual programming as a profession will be dead very soon

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#729

Post by Cider9986 »

ac29 wrote: post #549
h2aichat wrote: post #168

Working with chinese models is giving me a fullfilment sensation. I think that I have enough quality for the work that I need to do and lots of extra tokens to work with. With Claude and ChatGPT I reach the limits fairly easy, but not with OpenCode Go. So I will use Claude once in a while for difficult tasks to see how much better it still is (but use Chinese on a daily basis)

OpenCode Go is a great deal but I recently dumped my subscription because I found myself rarely reaching for it over my Anthropic sub (I can get 40 hours of work a week out of the $20 sub and almost never hit weekly limits). Subscribed to OpenAI as my secondary and I've been really impressed with that too so far. I expect if they add Kimi 3 to Go the limits are going to be really low since 2.7 is already one of the m…

What models do you use on your Anthropic sub? The weekly limits have been okay with resets but the 5 hours are brutal.

I use mostly Opus 4.8 medium or Fable medium in OpenCode.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#730

Post by Schlagbohrer »

katzenversteher wrote: post #718
simonw wrote: post #111

Pelican: https://tools.simonwillison.net/markdown-svg-renderer#url=ht... - rendered via the OpenRouter API: https://openrouter.ai/moonshotai/kimi-k3 95 input, 16,658 output = 25 cents! https://www.llm-prices.com/#it=95&ot=16658&ic=3&oc=15 (13,241 of those were reasoning tokens.) I think that's the most expensive pelican I've rendered through a Chinese model so far.

Hey Simon, I noticed one thing all LLMs are currently pretty bad at and maybe we could create a benchmark from it. Let an LLM play the role of a dungeon master and tell it to strictly stay in the script/story and only allow realistic player actions. You will notice that they are easily brought off track. E.g. - Tell the LLM that you as a player noticed a strange glow in an NPCs eyes -> the NPC becomes an enemy. - In…

Hahaha but this is just a very permissive DM'ing style! Valid for when running a game for children, for example ;-)
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