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British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

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181–190 of 314 posts

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#181
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't steel be recycled or taken by force?

Recycling steel uses by and large the same industrial sites as making new steel. Most new steel has some amount of recycled steel mixed in, the trick is getting the ratios of various types of scrap right

ok but in the bad situation, your steel is at the bottom of the ocean. how are you recycling that?

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#182
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the US and china are basically the same size geographically though? and the US federally owns tons of land it can create manufacturing cities out of

> and the US federally owns tons of land it can create manufacturing cities out of Ok, being generous and accepting your point at face value .... What about the people staffing those manufacturing cities ? Is the state creating them too ? I seem to recall reading somewhere that – at most – the US could "find" 200,000 people for new manufacturing plants. Sounds about right to me, no ? I think even with a generous mind…

as far as people go, the US could grant citizenship to all those people its trying to deport?

and there isnt a lack of people that would accept working in one of said manufacturing towns for 10 years or something to get US citizenship?

If manufacturing was a serious problem, the US could definitely solve that problem too.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#183
post #173
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> .. what were you doing in 2020? Waiting several years for widespread vaccine availability, and practicing good hygiene and social distancing. Viruses aren't so good at seizing and holding territory.

As I recall, the economic damage of the pandemic was ~ "it's worth spending ten billion dollars to make the vaccinations arrive one day sooner": https://www.newsweek.com/operation-warp-speed-what-deal-opin... (And that was just the cost to the USA, not the world as a whole).

Which does not change the fact that the pandemic was a peacetime crisis where it was possible but not practical to keep most systems running if needed.

Coronavirus wasn't bullseyeing vaccine shipments in the Pacific or taking down air freighters.

EDIT: I mean I don't know why you think this is a catch-22: countries pursue both capabilities, and the UK has a pharmaceutical industry and on shore manufacturing capabilities.

Whereas many industrialized nations are struggling to keep steel making capabilities on shore and running. So why is steel special? Because currently it's the one we're in danger of losing (and much harder to ship globally even if you have allies).

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#184
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is because fishing has multiple other factors. For one, it is a major component of certain towns and villages, so while it isn't important to big cities, it is on the smaller scale in particular areas. It keeps harbours open and is also a draw for tourists, so I would say it has different implications than, say, shoe manufacturing. The British chocolate industry was a major employer in some places but has been d…

Fishing tourism? Like... commercial fishing with a net? Not sport fishing?

in canada at least, you can catch a bush plane out to the middle of nowhere up north at a hunting and fishing lodge for a week.

idk if that counts as sport fishing, or sport sexual assault?

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#185
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if theres supply chain disruption abroad, its probably going to affect the ore and coke exports too

Far more fungible than steel plant products.

coke is pretty dependent on where it was mined, isn't it?

1018 is 1018 wherever it was made

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a defensive war, a steel navy sitting in spitting distance of your shores and an army of steel tanks will still do a lot to keep the enemy at bay. And you can swap the tank turrets for Gatling guns on some of your newly produced tanks to help against drones You wouldn't be able to win the war in your scenario, but you could still do a lot to make sure the other side isn't winning either.

If machine guns were useful against drones Russia would be winning in Ukraine. Check out Russia's Black Sea fleet to learn the fate of your navy sitting by your shores.

Is it that they can't work, or that they are too expensive for Russia to field any appreciable amount that won't just make them valuable targets? Its not trivial to produce the hundreds of thousands of rounds you need for each one to be ready.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#187
post #63
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The food example, is the exact reason for large farming subsidies in the European Union. These were implemented as a founding initiative, due to the experience of food shortages during the second world war. A great number of things could be considered critical. Due to the nature of when access could be cut off, the main thing countries likely worry about being able to access, is things humans need to stay alive, and…

Farming subsidies are one of the most criticized parts of the EU. My comment isn't in support of it. But even so, subsidy is quite different from compulsory purchase. The question is: why is steel special. Not in a no-action-vs-some-action way, but why so aggressive? Ironically I think it's the same for both steel and farmers: they provide votes.

Farming subsidies are the only way to prevent famine, the granary system sort of works, but regularly resulted in shortages and famines throughout every empire in history. Even not accounting for longer term climate trends, yield due to weather can vary up to 30% in a year, so it only makes sense to pay for a bit of over production so in the event of a couple bad years your food output is merely break even, and not 70% of needs.

Its better to pay 5 cents more for a loaf now than pay $20 a loaf with rationing later, or if we went back to granary system possibly getting moldy food.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a defensive war, a steel navy sitting in spitting distance of your shores and an army of steel tanks will still do a lot to keep the enemy at bay. And you can swap the tank turrets for Gatling guns on some of your newly produced tanks to help against drones You wouldn't be able to win the war in your scenario, but you could still do a lot to make sure the other side isn't winning either.

If machine guns were useful against drones Russia would be winning in Ukraine. Check out Russia's Black Sea fleet to learn the fate of your navy sitting by your shores.

The PM M1910 is used by Ukraine to shoot down drones.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#189
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If machine guns were useful against drones Russia would be winning in Ukraine. Check out Russia's Black Sea fleet to learn the fate of your navy sitting by your shores.

russia is currently holding just about all the land it wants in Ukraine They might not be taking Kiev for a hundred years, but the fortress belt is well within reach in the next couple of years If they were to negotiate an end tomorrow, Russia certainly wouldnt be giving up territory in ukraine. i dont see how thats not winning

If you’re looking at win vs loss you also need to look at what you got in return for what you gave. A ton of casualties and further international isolation aren’t really worth the middling gains Russia could negotiate for peace today. Which is probably one of the reasons they still haven’t, sunk cost fallacy and all that.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#190

It's probably not a bad idea. Steel is one of the things that an industrialized country needs to produce to protect its own sovereignty. Letting it shut down and just hope you'll always be able to import enough steel from other countries is a bad long-term strategy. You'd be left unable to fend for yourself.

Steel on its own is inert and useless, you need to retain the entire downstream manufacturing ecosystem that consumes it. Like cars for example, producing steel but letting all your vehicle manufacturers sell off to foreign owners just so you can import BYDs doesn't do you any good.
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