Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 333 posts

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#311

Post by root_axis »

thephyber wrote: post #305
root_axis wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So your prediction is that Stripe will throw away billions for no reason based on your anecdotal experiences. I'll take the bet that you're totally wrong.

Risk mitigation is not "for no reason". It is actually one of the larger revenue generators in the economy. That said, I wouldn't bet (if I were you) on something without clearly defining the terms. If Stripe simply homogenizes contractual rules that match their contracts with Mastercard, etc, which side of the bet would that fall on?

> Risk mitigation is not "for no reason"

I'm not sure why everyone in this thread consistently ignores the fact that PayPal has been profitably servicing these types of businesses for years. The risk has already been mitigated.

> If Stripe simply homogenizes contractual rules that match their contracts with Mastercard, etc, which side of the bet would that fall on?

That would be me losing the bet. What you and others in this thread seem to be missing is that Stripe's risk factors are not the same as PayPal's because Paypal works directly with merchants rather than as a proxy for the card rails like Stripe. The idea that Stripe would take ownership of the platform and start shutting off paying customers is absurd, and as of yet, I haven't seen anyone acknowledge this fact in their explanation of why Stripe would throw away free money.

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#312

Post by mrguyorama »

reddalo wrote: post #139
edoceo wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then how do other processors go over the Visa and MC rails for these transaction types? How does Stripe allow some and then block others?

Simply put, Stripe doesn't want to deal with the risk associated with those transaction types.

What do you mean "Stripe doesn't want to deal with the risk"?

What risk does Stripe take on in this situation?

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#313

Post by mrguyorama »

olalonde wrote: post #270
edoceo wrote: post #97

Not good. Stripe makes restrictions that PayPal allows (cannabis adjacent, adult adjacent) that Stripe blocks. Many vendors will be negatively impacted by Stripes morality police and selective application of their policies.

It has nothing to do with morality. It has to do with compliance and fraud risk.

What fraud risk?

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#314

Post by root_axis »

edoceo wrote: post #223
root_axis wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's disappointing that you're now descending into sarcastic quips rather than address the substance of my reply. You could have just abandoned the conversation without the snarky announcement. Anyway, if that's the quality of conversation you're offering then abandoning the conversation makes sense. Have a good one.

Sorry. I'll try one more time then. Stripe is currently passing on these revenues. Stripe has been hostile to these revenue streams for more than a decade. You seem to think their behavior will change after an acquisition. An acquisition that is also a (dangerous) market consolidation. I don't think they will. How is PayPal not subject to MC rules when MC is used as a funding source for a PP account that purchases ca…

> You seem to think their behavior will change after an acquisition

No. I'm explaining that PayPal as a business has their own risk models and contractual relationships with merchants that allows them to serve these lines of business profitably. This is the reason why PayPal services these businesses in the first place.

After a Stripe acquisition, that doesn't change, PayPal's model continues to operate profitably for high risk merchants while Stripe's continues to be risky due to the fact that Stripe is just a payment processor, while PayPal operates more like a bank.

> How is PayPal not subject to MC rules when MC is used as a funding source for a PP account that purchases cannabis-adjacent services

The card networks establish strategic partnerships with large businesses in order to cater to their needs. Since PayPal has already established a profitable risk model to service these merchants, the card networks are comfortable with more permissive checkout rules since PayPal is contractually on the hook for chargebacks and fraud.

> taking a few billions in high-risk money puts their other even-larger billions at risk.

How does that money put their larger business at risk?

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#315

Post by peschu »

yuppiepuppie wrote: post #293
martypitt wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI - I tried visiting your site. In Chrome (tested in Incognito as well), I get a massive white space at the top, with a vertical scroll. If I scroll far enough, I see the site. Worked fine in Firefox.

very strange - Ill pass it on to the team managing the landing page. I tried reproducing and was unable to, both in chrome and safari. Thanks for the heads up!

I have no problems at all with the website on ffx iphone, but I think they forgot the pricing page ;)

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#316

Post by okanat »

edelbitter wrote: post #204
okanat wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying with Paypal is as easy as logging in. With Wero/iDeal you always need a phone or a code. People trust PayPal more too.

Logging into PayPal is easy except on one of those days when it is not.. and nothing can fix it other than waiting ~24h. With a proper bank account, strong authentication with some dongle or code generator means if I have it, I can depend on being able to pay. No regard for the number of bots currently pestering them. With PayPal trying to guess whether its me, maybe I can pay. Maybe I'll get a captcha loop. Maybe th…

I do have quite stringent non-tracking settings enabled in my browsers, and I do get occasional captcha or TOTP request.However, I never got completely denied a login with PayPal.

Many banks are equally employing the same "guessing whether it is you" techniques with their web UIs. Moreover many of them require Google Play Integrity when a phone is the TOTP. Definitely different ergonomics though.

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#317

Post by okanat »

Sayrus wrote: post #269
okanat wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why you pointed out that, to be honest. I'm not a merchant. I am a consumer. As a consumer I would like to avoid Master Card / Visa as much as possible and also giving numbers out as much as possible. Paypal allows that and I don't need to use my phone to approve payments. Moreover payment systems that prioritize the needs of merchants usually are horrible for consumers. If Wero becomes such a platform, I…

I misunderstood your initial point about logging-in. On PayPal logging in requires my phone, even with hardware 2FA because sometimes it decides my new IP/Browser/luck isn't trusted enough so it needs to send me a SMS/WhatsApp message so it didn't even register with me that you would be talking about taking out your phone as an additional friction. I see that now, in which case: you're completely right. WeRo requires…

Indeed. My primary issue is requiring a Google or Apple blessed phone for the protocol that is supposed to replace the American alternative with the EU one. If they push strongly the American duopoly, I'd rather use the American monopoly that gives me the better ergonomics and less friction. Yes I do get a TOTP request every now and then, but I have options like authenticator apps, SMSes, passkeys with Paypal. With Wero that's more limited.

I simply do not believe that EU banks will actually invest in a truly independent system with its own trust network. Majority of the banks complain and block you in Germany, when you have a unGoogled phone. It is simply not in the culture of Germany to make risky investments, especially banks. They always choose the options that milk normal consumers. Then EU comes and regulates them into submission. We only got guaranteed free instant SEPA transfers in 2025, while it has been possible for decades. So I am more optimistic for ECB's digital Euro as a consumer than Wero.

> In term of implementation, WeRo looks more like a response to mobile payments like WhatApp, WeChat, Alipay, ... than a response a provider like PayPal.

Wero is usually marketed as the alternative to PayPal: https://www.ndr.de/ratgeber/verbraucher/Paypal-Alternative-W... and I didn't know Whatsapp supported payments. I have never seen such an option.

> You can use QRCode (Direct SEPA).

If they fixed the mobile phone problem and provided a way that's functionally equivalent to Paypal usernames, I'm in for person-to-person transfers.

> Supporting merchants flow to pay is different from prioritizing their needs so I'm unsure where you're going from there. It's also completely separated from Person-to-Person payments. PayPal supports Person-To-Merchant and I wouldn't say they are great for merchant.

Indeed. I may have rephrased my sentence there. I don't trust payment providers that significantly prioritize the needs of merchants over persons. Yes Paypal may suck for the merchants, but its buyer protection is one of the significant reasons that I keep using Paypal for online payments. I do buy stuff from independent sellers in Germany and other EU countries and sometimes they behave less than ideal. Paypal keeps things fairer for the consumer. If Wero is targetting this market, they need to be competing with Paypal on equal footing.

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#318

Post by digitaltrees »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #78
dlcarrier wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, PayPal has nowhere near the adoption of other countries, for making payments directly between accounts, and Visa and Mastercard have enough regulatory capture to ensure it stays that way. If there wasn't a regulation-ensured duopoly, everyone would be switching to RTP or FedNow which each charge 4.5¢ per transaction, without an additional commission.

With wechat in china, pix in south america and wero in europe, I think it's quite the opposite. All continents want to see visa and mastercard dead so they can bring back those transaction fees in house and it will work as the phone is the low friction payment method now. Wero in the EU is fantastic, albeit still very young. Once it's mature and deployed everywhere, I see no reason to use something else in my country…

A monopoly in a domestic market is sufficiently harmful to be avoided. It doesn’t have to be totally global.

Re: Stripe and Advent have made a joint offer to acquire PayPal – sources

#320

Post by ds2 »

Terr_ wrote: post #260
stavros wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The good thing about price collusion is that it's hard to coordinate. If even one competitor defects (and they have every advantage to, as they'll win big), then the cartel falls apart.

I'd like to point out that the the idea rests on an inefficient market, where price/transaction information was kept secret long enough to turn the trust-violation into worthwhile profit. In contrast, an efficient market with perfect price information means other cartel members would instantly notice and change their prices to punish the defector.

[dead]
Post reply on HN