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Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

kimi.com

221–230 of 1001 posts

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokenizers define the alphabet on which the language model is trained. I don't want people to get the impression it's a module which can be swapped out or modified on its own. Alphabet size is a design consideration related to correctly encoding the training data.

That's true, but it makes it difficult to compare pricing when it's based on tokens. Maybe we need a benchmark for price per a specific input, like enwiki8.

A better metric is price per byte. Most thinking traces, prompts, skills are in plain English, which is roughly 1 byte per character, assuming UTF-8 encoding (even code should not be much more either). As an aside, it is common to use bits-per-byte as a loss metric instead of the per token calculation, precisely because of the effect of different tokenizers.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#222

This is too expensive to be a viable model. If it were $5/1m output, it might be another story. At these prices, there's no reason to use this over GPT 5.6.

[flagged]

In context it seems your recommendation is to instead send those data to models within Chinese nation-network space. I’m not here to defend US frontier model companies; your accusation is probably accurate. But I doubt sending data to China is an improvement.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokenizers also matter. Anthropics tokenizers will encode the same piece of text at a way higher token count than OpenAi, for example. That said, Kimi is competing against GLM in my mind, and GLM 5.2 is less than 1/3 the price.

GLM is actually quite expensive in actual practice because it's not very token efficient. I've yet to find a way to run it on a monthly sub reliably for cheaper than Codex. Neuralwatt was cheap (but slow) but they cranked their price. Ollama monthly sub is speedy but doesn't offer a lot of quota. Right now unless you're paying by the token, there's no cost based reason to use the open weight models for daily coding w…

I don't know, DeepseekV4 is so dirt cheap that it makes lots of sense to use over Sonnet.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GLM is actually quite expensive in actual practice because it's not very token efficient. I've yet to find a way to run it on a monthly sub reliably for cheaper than Codex. Neuralwatt was cheap (but slow) but they cranked their price. Ollama monthly sub is speedy but doesn't offer a lot of quota. Right now unless you're paying by the token, there's no cost based reason to use the open weight models for daily coding w…

re: > Right now unless you're paying by the token, there's no cost based reason to use the open weight models for daily coding work because the monthly coding plans from Anthropic and OpenAI are a better deal. Maybe. I am on a $20/month Anthropic subscription this month but I also use Claude Code frequently with Deepseek v4 flash and pro, GML5.2. For simple work Deepseek v4 flash is so nice because it is fast. What y…

DeepSeek is a whole other story. It and a few others are quite economical. But they're also not nearly at the same level.

I can get by working on code strictly in GLM. I can't with DeepSeek. It makes some pretty careless mistakes and isn't a very deep thinker.

It is very useful as a general purpose model for non-coding purposes though.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#226
post #78
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The thing is - as a European, I can choose between plague and cholera. One has mostly been reliable, stayed peaceful towards us and is primarily concerned with their internal matters and the countries right next to it. They have long-term strategy and understanding of win-win situations. The other one keeps threatening to invade/steal Greenland. Keeps waging an economic war against the entire bloc. Positions their pr…

>Keeps waging an economic war against the entire bloc.

>Positions their propagandists right in our middle and does the best to influence our elections.

>Exports fascism and finances antidemocratic forces.

>Supports the genocide in that certain country.

>Oh and they don't honor any treaties if they feel like it.

I don't know how anyone can really mention any of these when trying to paint a bad picture of anyone as compared to China. It's just an obscene exercise in ignorance. I just can't make sense of discourse like this except as a result of propaganda.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#227
Some official benchmark numbers posted in Chinese social media (I am sure they will publish an English blogpost later too):

https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/V4xhEIy8xDXSMDPrPkmUAQ

Generally looks like a Sol/Fable tier model, better across the board than Opus 4.8.

(Edit) English blogpost is up now: https://www.kimi.com/blog/kimi-k3

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#229
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is - as a European, I can choose between plague and cholera. One has mostly been reliable, stayed peaceful towards us and is primarily concerned with their internal matters and the countries right next to it. They have long-term strategy and understanding of win-win situations. The other one keeps threatening to invade/steal Greenland. Keeps waging an economic war against the entire bloc. Positions their pr…

The last time China bombed a foreign country was nearly 50 years ago. A very inconvenient truth for the China hawks.

No, just aesthetic trivia that can be paraded around to make them look good.

Given how China behaves it should be evident that the only reason they don't apply military force is because they are not in position to. Not abusing military strength is not exactly being the paragon of virtue when your opposition could probably glass the world thrice before the day is over.

Re: Kimi K3: Open Frontier Intelligence

#230
It's important we now have a recap to the opus 4.8 release where we were threatened with ID verification as "these models become more powerful" and had to pass "verification" to gain full access to the capabilities without having random "cyber" refusals.
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