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British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

bbc.com

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Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#71

Post by RandomLensman »

pydry wrote: post #67
mr_toad wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Half of all steel in the UK is imported anyway, and there are many places to obtain it. Unless the UK goes to war with most of the world at the same time, it’s not going to have trouble getting steel.

If there is a large war, those countries will prioritize domestic consumption and the UK will immediately stop being able to produce weapons. Domestic steel production is an essential element of being sovereign, as opposed to being the handpuppet of a larger power (like the US).

I don't see how the UK could generally be self-sufficient in any large war.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#72

Post by flir »

traceroute66 wrote: post #32

This reminded me of an article in The Economist published last year, April 2025: "Zombie politics: how Dead Man dominates British politics"[1] Two prescient paragraphs related to today's news: If British politicians worship voters who are no longer among the living, it is natural that they do the same to a version of the British economy that has long departed. “There are people in this country who love to talk down o…

Fishing holds similar role in the UK and France (at least). Tiny components of the overall economy, giant patriotic feels.

I still think some manufacturing is simply strategic, and you should maintain a capability even at a (financial) loss though.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#73

Post by remus »

0x3f wrote: post #37
Deukhoofd wrote: post #22

It's probably not a bad idea. Steel is one of the things that an industrialized country needs to produce to protect its own sovereignty. Letting it shut down and just hope you'll always be able to import enough steel from other countries is a bad long-term strategy. You'd be left unable to fend for yourself.

You can make this same argument about a great number of things. Why is steel any more critical than food or vaccines or the like? Indeed we got caught short of vaccines recently, and had some nontrivial consideration of running a military op against NATO member over it.

Obviously there are a lot of important things you need to keep a country running, but steel is a key input a in a huge number of very important sectors (infrastructure, military, automotive etc.) so having some ability to produce your own steel seems a sensible hedge.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#74

Post by 0x3f »

traceroute66 wrote: post #51
derektank wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s only possible for Dead Man valorizing politicians to be elected because much of the electorate worships the same. They all have parents too, naturally.

> much of the electorate worships the same. They all have parents too, naturally. Well, yes. But not many of them worship the generation who were mostly responsible for voting in favour of Brexit (60% support among those aged 65 and over at the time of the vote).

I think they do, actually. They just have a disconnect about it. But e.g. removing the triple lock is unpopular not just among those of an age to be affected by it.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#75

Post by traceroute66 »

flir wrote: post #72
traceroute66 wrote: post #32

This reminded me of an article in The Economist published last year, April 2025: "Zombie politics: how Dead Man dominates British politics"[1] Two prescient paragraphs related to today's news: If British politicians worship voters who are no longer among the living, it is natural that they do the same to a version of the British economy that has long departed. “There are people in this country who love to talk down o…

Fishing holds similar role in the UK and France (at least). Tiny components of the overall economy, giant patriotic feels. I still think some manufacturing is simply strategic, and you should maintain a capability even at a (financial) loss though.

> Fishing holds similar role in the UK

Indeed and ironically most British people refuse to eat the species commonly found in UK waters, e.g. mackerel etc.

Because the Brits are so fussy, most fish eaten in the UK has always been imported, e.g. Icelandic cod.

And the fact the UK fishermen were die-hard pro-Brexit is odd given they should have been aware that the majority of their regular catch was sold to EU buyers.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#76

Post by georgeecollins »

flir wrote: post #72
traceroute66 wrote: post #32

This reminded me of an article in The Economist published last year, April 2025: "Zombie politics: how Dead Man dominates British politics"[1] Two prescient paragraphs related to today's news: If British politicians worship voters who are no longer among the living, it is natural that they do the same to a version of the British economy that has long departed. “There are people in this country who love to talk down o…

Fishing holds similar role in the UK and France (at least). Tiny components of the overall economy, giant patriotic feels. I still think some manufacturing is simply strategic, and you should maintain a capability even at a (financial) loss though.

In the US that's farming. The "family farm" which is rare ends up being the justification for tons of agribusiness subsidies.

The good news is the USA produces lots of food.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#77

Post by nialv7 »

traceroute66 wrote: post #32

This reminded me of an article in The Economist published last year, April 2025: "Zombie politics: how Dead Man dominates British politics"[1] Two prescient paragraphs related to today's news: If British politicians worship voters who are no longer among the living, it is natural that they do the same to a version of the British economy that has long departed. “There are people in this country who love to talk down o…

what a bizarre article, completely disconnected from reality. in what world is manufacturing, a sector that has been neglected for decades at this point, having any sway on politics in Britain.

why does The Economist have so much disdain of manufacturing and people who work in it? look at China, look at their manufacturing industry and what they are able to do with it. then look at the UK, who is struggling to build Hinkley Point C, or HS2 (projected to be the most expensive high-speed rail in the world btw). The Economist is an absolute f*ing joke.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#78

Post by 1970-01-01 »

0x3f wrote: post #68
1970-01-01 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it is top-critical, you're recycling it, opening new mines, and taking it by force.

Don't most of these contingencies apply to steel in the first place?

Nope. The entire point here is facing the decision on which of these contingencies will apply.

Re: British Steel taken into public ownership to protect 'vital' UK supply

#79

Post by flir »

traceroute66 wrote: post #75
flir wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fishing holds similar role in the UK and France (at least). Tiny components of the overall economy, giant patriotic feels. I still think some manufacturing is simply strategic, and you should maintain a capability even at a (financial) loss though.

> Fishing holds similar role in the UK Indeed and ironically most British people refuse to eat the species commonly found in UK waters, e.g. mackerel etc. Because the Brits are so fussy, most fish eaten in the UK has always been imported, e.g. Icelandic cod. And the fact the UK fishermen were die-hard pro-Brexit is odd given they should have been aware that the majority of their regular catch was sold to EU buyers.

> most fish eaten in the UK has always been imported, e.g. Icelandic cod.

Not always (Cod Wars). And our herring catch was once its own industry.

> And the fact the UK fishermen were die-hard pro-Brexit is odd given they should have been aware that the majority of their regular catch was sold to EU buyers.

They thought they'd have a monopoly on those fishing grounds post-Brexit.

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