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Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

frank.computer

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Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#91

Post by SirFatty »

pj_mukh wrote: post #61
michaelt wrote: post #45

As I understand it, in America "it's just a tool" is shorthand for "guns should be regulated like hammers, i.e. barely at all, responsibility lies with the user not those who make, market and sell it" Needless to say a lot of people disagree with that, because of the shootings. And internationally, a lot of societies regulate guns a great deal. I'm not saying this to steer the conversation towards gun control, or to…

You’re not doing this but to your example: Guns don’t have numerous other positive use cases, so AI is simply not a fair comparison. And in the case of AI, given the media environment the fact that it’s being used to save millions of hours doing back office automation is never covered. So yes this is a prime argument for AI. It’s just a tool with a myriad of uses that no one covers cuz they’re boring. As to the rest…

"NIMBY-ying warehouses where matrix math happens is somehow a solution to those problems"

You think the opposition to the datacenters is an effort to sop AI? ffs.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#92

Post by customguy »

youre-wrong3 wrote: post #55
vaylian wrote: post #50

Are there upsides to using AI? Yes. Are there downsides? Definitely yes. And the problem is that most people ignore these downsides. Either due to ignorance, or because they got too used to using AI that they don't want to go back. AI is not just a tool, but a mechanism for dehumanization. Not because it replaces humans, but because it replaces human interactions, which have made us so successful as a species.

[flagged]

> You state “ignore these downsides” and “due to their own ignorance…”

What's the criticism? That you can't ignore something you're ignorant of?

[0] or maybe you don't understand what that means in the first place, making it impossible for you to hand wave it away [1]

I hate this style of discussion, "uhm akshually there's a piece of dust" that is just left hanging, as if that means the point is somehow diminished. And then there isn't even a piece of dust most of the time, or it's completely besides the point.

> Then you say “it replaces human interactions” which it absolutely does not. It seems the pro ai and anti ai crowd seem to have this misconception that humans are removed from the equation

If you replace one person giving another person an object with that person A leaving it at a dead drop and person B picking it up, you removed the interaction without removing the humans.

> when the reality is the position has shifted.

To where? You're just hand waving the removal of human interactions away [0], to say all that can be dismissed, instead it's something that means nothing at all.

"we haven't disconnected people, we just put them behind bulletproof glass on separate continents, we just shifted their position"

[1] See what I did there? I put the a footnote where it doesn't go, just as a little quirky thing, because why not.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#93

Post by roryirvine »

michaelt wrote: post #45

As I understand it, in America "it's just a tool" is shorthand for "guns should be regulated like hammers, i.e. barely at all, responsibility lies with the user not those who make, market and sell it" Needless to say a lot of people disagree with that, because of the shootings. And internationally, a lot of societies regulate guns a great deal. I'm not saying this to steer the conversation towards gun control, or to…

The analogy holds better if you compare the operators of AI services to the operators of gun services.

A shooting range, for example, must take reasonable care to prevent people from harming themselves or others: hearing protection, safety markings, lane dividers, a well-defined target area, backsplash protection, etc.

I'm not entirely against the "just a tool" interpretation of AI, as long as it's used to cover only the model (and maybe the weights) - an inert lump of code, rather than a public-facing inference service.

(I'm generally baffled by American gun culture, so perhaps it is possible there to recklessly operate an unsafe shooting range with impunity, but I doubt it...)

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#96

Post by stasomatic »

jdw64 wrote: post #20

Right. AI is a tool that helps some people "make their situation better." I don't believe technology is value neutral either. Say a tractor does the work of ten farmers, and the farm owner lays off those ten farmers. Is that the tractor's fault? It's just the farm owner's fault. But we usually say the tractor took the ten farmers' jobs, because the farm owner trusted the productivity gain and made the cuts. That's th…

>In places that are ten or twenty years behind in technology, do you really think >they can produce technology that surpasses Anglophone open source? At that point, >learning English itself becomes a privilege, and that's where the technological >asymmetry comes in. And the thing is, learning English in a developing country is >expensive.

Are you of an opinion that it was done on purpose, weaponizing English? I can't picture how you'd phrase a "for loop" in Arabic, Russian, or Chinese. I mean, it's been done, but didn't stick. I guess assembly would be more Esperantish.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#98

Post by jdw64 »

stasomatic wrote: post #96
jdw64 wrote: post #20

Right. AI is a tool that helps some people "make their situation better." I don't believe technology is value neutral either. Say a tractor does the work of ten farmers, and the farm owner lays off those ten farmers. Is that the tractor's fault? It's just the farm owner's fault. But we usually say the tractor took the ten farmers' jobs, because the farm owner trusted the productivity gain and made the cuts. That's th…

>In places that are ten or twenty years behind in technology, do you really think >they can produce technology that surpasses Anglophone open source? At that point, >learning English itself becomes a privilege, and that's where the technological >asymmetry comes in. And the thing is, learning English in a developing country is >expensive. Are you of an opinion that it was done on purpose, weaponizing English? I can't…

No, I don't see it that way. If anything, it's well intentioned. People do all of this with good intentions. I don't think open source is evil. It's built on good intentions.

But just because something is well intentioned doesn't mean it has no negative effects on some people. I see it as a side effect.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#99

Post by hn_acker »

chungusamongus wrote: post #15

There is another platitude people spout on the matter. "Technology is not neutral." Usually without elaborating. Any correct statement can become a thought eliminating cliche over time.

> There is another platitude people spout on the matter. "Technology is not neutral." Usually without elaborating.

And some people post the "usually without elaborating" platitude even in response to elaborations.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#100

Post by otterley »

devindotcom wrote: post #38
otterley wrote: post #13

Attempting to command well-meaning people to “stop doing X” as though you’re some sort of dictatorial authority is not only rude, but it’s also ineffective. I get it, it’s a spicy hook, but the effect turns quickly against you. If you find yourself wanting to write like this, I recommend reconsidering. Persuade them instead.

you are yourself commanding a well-meaning person to stop doing X, like some dictatorial authority, with no attempt at persuasion. I recommend reading past the headline before making glib dismissals - spicy but it turns quickly against you.

Oh, you're so clever. https://thenib.com/mister-gotcha/
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