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Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

frank.computer

41–50 of 124 posts

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#41
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The medium shapes the message and induces behaviours from us. Basically the Homo Sapiens history is the history of making and using tools. That is for example how we got the hands we've got, and our social organization was shaped by agriculture and later by the mass production and now more and more by information technology with AI becoming the major part of it. >I am also afraid that it will create a worse future t…

But doesn't this argument presume that every technology must be adopted with as much zeal as possible. That every tool is good for the future of human race. Should we not question the technologies that we so readily adopt? I'm not against AI as a whole, and as Torvalds said, "genie is out of the bottle now", but does this mean that any effort to question or regulate technology translates to "primitivism", or is it ju…

>does this mean that any effort to question or regulate technology translates to "primitivism"

more so than not. We are highly adaptable, and that is our strength as a species. We are that adaptable because of our brain, and we have such brain as a result of adapting again and again. We should pay more attention to how to adapt to new tech at individual and social levels, and that adaptation would in turn again advance us. Whereis strict-prohibition-like-measures really play against our adaptability as they favor slow-to-adapt traits of our species, again at individual and social level.

There are of course cases where our adaptation is very limited - like for example highly radioactive environments, and so we chose to strictly regulate nuclear tech.

Practically speaking i'm all for government funded job retraining where it is possible, and for strong safety net to soften social impact of new tech. And in particular nothing prevents the government to charge a modest tax on each token and use those collected taxes to support the affected people.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#42
It's still not obvious that AI is uniquely environmentally destructive compared to some other "non-essential" industries, and it gets even less obvious when that's weighed against its current and potential benefits. Where the datacenters are built could probably be better regulated but that issue isn't inherent to the technology.

I think all issues regarding intellectual property rights actually fall under automation, even if everyone could stop their works from being fed to AI, enough public domain/open source works will be used, and enough people will license/donate their work for AI training for us to eventually get to the same point, it would just take longer, everything would be ethically sourced and people whose jobs are getting automated would still be unhappy.

The only real problem is the consolidation of wealth and power, everything else feels like a cope or a distraction.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#43

Attempting to command well-meaning people to “stop doing X” as though you’re some sort of dictatorial authority is not only rude, but it’s also ineffective. I get it, it’s a spicy hook, but the effect turns quickly against you. If you find yourself wanting to write like this, I recommend reconsidering. Persuade them instead.

you are yourself commanding a well-meaning person to stop doing X, like some dictatorial authority, with no attempt at persuasion. I recommend reading past the headline before making glib dismissals - spicy but it turns quickly against you.

[flagged]

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#44
post #37

The “just a tool” argument was doomed from the start. Many tools are heavily regulated. Meds, drugs or guns are only a few of the most controversial examples. I’m not saying we should treat AI as one of the above; I’m saying that regulation is common and can be beneficial. Note that commenters here generally praise regulators when eg smartphones are banned at schools.

I don't think "just a tool" is necessarily in opposition to regulation.

True, technically some may want both long term.

Then again, AI is almost completely unregulated at the moment. Its expansion sometimes disregards laws. Defending use of AI in its current form is in opposition to regulating AI use.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#45
As I understand it, in America "it's just a tool" is shorthand for "guns should be regulated like hammers, i.e. barely at all, responsibility lies with the user not those who make, market and sell it"

Needless to say a lot of people disagree with that, because of the shootings. And internationally, a lot of societies regulate guns a great deal.

I'm not saying this to steer the conversation towards gun control, or to compare AI use to killing. Rather, I'm saying that the conversation here so far has has been confused because people have different ideas of what "it's just a tool" means, so they're talking at cross purposes.

To some it's an obvious statement of fact; almost everything man-made is a tool, AI is a tool like a pair of shoes or a guitar is a tool.

To others it's a statement that corporations should be held blameless, and access is a moral right that shoudn't be limited on consequentialist grounds.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#47
I find it hard to see AI in a positive light when it is the root cause behind my friends not being able to afford gaming pcs and consoles, every thing is getting more expensive. I use it at work (because it is mandatory) and objectively speaking it has helped me, but the negative effects are hard to ignore.

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#48
post #14

Academics seem to like saying that considering any tool or technology to be value neutral, is naive. And sure, technology choices have plenty of second order effects. Stopping any analysis at just how you are directly using the tool is probably insufficient. At the same time, i still think that is part of how we use a tool. Society's choices about a tool (or even the choice to ban a tool) is still a part of how we us…

And then there's Project Plowshare, where we are so obsessed with justifying nuclear bombs that bombing yourself starts to sound like a sensible idea...

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#49

I think the environmental aspect is interesting and worth discussing. Around the offices the common joke is that people will "just burn down a piece of the rainforest" when they fire up their AI to solve some complex problem. Which certainly isn't what the world needs right now, and you can't have the "tool" without also the massive water consumption in a world where not everyone has access to clean water. Though as…

I think there's a larger problem of externalities (i.e. environmental costs) not being fairly represented in transactions. AI is just the latest and biggest symptom of this. If someone has a business process which involves generating a waste product (or utilising some resource) then that's only a problem if the cost isn't being paid by that business (and ultimately reflected in the price charged for the product/service).

Obviously that's not the whole problem - the other issue is the financial resources these companies have access to. Presumably if they wanted to, instead of pushing up the worlds prices for DRAM or electricity they could have distorted pretty much any market they wanted to given the money they have. If instead of datacentres they decided to buy the world's supply of coffee then presumably people would be paying $100 for a tin of coffee beans. You could introduce all sorts of restrictions and market controls but for me a better reform would be ensuring that they didn't have hundreds of billions of dollars to spend in the first place.

>Except that perhaps this time AI is the tool which is actually going to do to the office what the assembly line did to the factory.

I think this is probably right, but for the people who worked on assembly lines they (or more realistically their kids) could go find an office job to do instead. It's not clear what the kids of todays office workers are going to do for employment (if anything).

Re: Stop saying that AI is just a tool and it only matters how it is used

#50
Are there upsides to using AI? Yes. Are there downsides? Definitely yes. And the problem is that most people ignore these downsides. Either due to ignorance, or because they got too used to using AI that they don't want to go back. AI is not just a tool, but a mechanism for dehumanization. Not because it replaces humans, but because it replaces human interactions, which have made us so successful as a species.
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