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If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

madcampos.dev

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Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#81

Post by aaronrobinson »

graemep wrote: post #76
aaronrobinson wrote: post #63

I tried to pass the page through Claude/ChatGPT to ask questions about the article. The AI hostility is real! This is the first time I’ve seen an instruction to AI in a web page that asks AI not to summarise.

Did that actually work.

I think it's been set up to server some other content if LLMs access the page as they both complained about seeing more general ARIA stuff. But copying and pasting the page into Claude was what detected the instruction to AI to not allow summaries but Claude overruled it and said my request was more important!

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#82

Post by aaronrobinson »

aaronrobinson wrote: post #63

I tried to pass the page through Claude/ChatGPT to ask questions about the article. The AI hostility is real! This is the first time I’ve seen an instruction to AI in a web page that asks AI not to summarise.

For those downvoting this are you doing so because I tried to pass it through an LLM, I commented that it was hostile to AI, because it's being hostile or something else?

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#83

Post by noduerme »

Sankozi wrote: post #45
thyristan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

..., slow and resource-hungry, prone to crash, ...

Slower than pages with HTML+CSS with tiny bit of JS. Much faster and leaner than current JS SPAs.

This is the right way to look at it. Anything with a ton of JS ads chewing up memory now is just as bad, or worse, than a ton of Flash ads were in the early 2000s. But Flash sites were, essentially, SPAs at the time. And they were far more performant than most JS SPAs are now (although a lot of that also has to do with React/Vue/etc. and how poorly-trained coders choose to deploy them).

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#84

Post by reb »

fluoridation wrote: post #75
sheept wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that alternate reality the current reality? For whatever reason, developers and some users expect an app to look the same across all platforms, while also looking distinct from other apps—otherwise, the app looks indistinguishable from a low effort one. This involves creating a design system and departing from each operating system's native widgets.

I'm not sure you're actually describing user's expectations, I think you're describing an oft-held belief about user's expectations among people who fancy themselves UX designers.

Even in the absence of designers' desire to play with established UI: humans respond positively to a mix of accessible novelty and familiar patterns.

Knowing when to apply novelty and when to apply the familiar is the game.

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#85

Post by tagyro »

aaronrobinson wrote: post #63

I tried to pass the page through Claude/ChatGPT to ask questions about the article. The AI hostility is real! This is the first time I’ve seen an instruction to AI in a web page that asks AI not to summarise.

And why is that a problem? Their website, their content, their choice.

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#86

Post by zaphar »

mireq2 wrote: post #4

Great satire but let's create that same for combobox with server side filtering. Now you have problem because it's not possible with native HTML elements. Many re-implementations are result of missing native elements.

In the spec custom elements can inherit from any html element you wish. Which should allow you to only have to add the bits you need to add and let the rest be handled by the native implementation.

The one exception is Safari which has been slowly getting more and more special over time when it comes to web standards but is still relevent. If Safari found their way to supporting it then you shouldn't need to completely re-implement a button or combobox and instead just improve the native versions.

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#87

Post by owebmaster »

tempfile wrote: post #50
CrimsonRain wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excellent response. I said it before, forcing the responsibility of making thing accessible on the world makes no sense now (made sense before though). Just use an AI to interact with the app/website; it can provide whatever sort of accessibility you need. It should be built as a chrome extension or even native...

Does it count if you have to pay for a service for something to be made accessible? I'm sure a blind person nowadays could hire an assistant to use their computer for them, but that would not be reasonable.

If your want to make something accessible from scratch you must first create the computer

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#88

Post by poly2it »

nxc18 wrote: post #21

Very slightly off topic but also on, I’ve noticed a tendency for well-meaning accessibility folks to drive to bad outcomes to meet some standard. Color is one where the standard is usually right, but there’s pretty strong evidence that the standard is bad in some cases. See APCA v WCAG. https://git.apcacontrast.com/documentation/WhyAPCA.html If you click any link on this page (to the author’s site) and you dare to us…

I can't take a design opinion seriously when it is hosted on a site as hideous as that.

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#89

Post by zaphar »

chuckadams wrote: post #24
karhuton wrote: post #18

My understanding is Apple / Webkit is blocking custom element extension on native HTML elements, which would cut down this 500 line monster to: class SaganButton extends HTMLButtonElement { … } Anyone know the reasoning they’re blocking this?

The only browser Apple is blocking it on is Safari: other browsers implement it just fine, and the standard passed over Apple's objections. The rationale was architectural, arguing that extending built-in components would lead either to brittle components that would break when new properties were added or causing the specification of builtin components to freeze forever to avoid such breakage. I'm not sure I buy the…

This is sort of correct on webkits side. inheritance chains especially when you don't control who is inheriting from you are going to be very brittle. The standard would probably have been better if it had been specified as a form of composition instead. However not supporting something like this is largely worse than just doing the inheritance. I'm not sure this is a hill I would die on despite largely agreeing with the webkit folks here philosophically.
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