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If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

madcampos.dev

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Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#41

Post by CrimsonRain »

noduerme wrote: post #12

Just coming off a wild ride where a client was sued by a non-customer and a rapacious legal firm, who claimed that said client's website was not sufficiently accessible. The day after the lawsuit was filed, a company specializing in accessibility testing mysteriously contacted the client, offering a solution. Client had not even gotten notice of the litigation yet. The net result of this was several tens of thousands…

Excellent response. I said it before, forcing the responsibility of making thing accessible on the world makes no sense now (made sense before though). Just use an AI to interact with the app/website; it can provide whatever sort of accessibility you need. It should be built as a chrome extension or even native...

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#42

Post by SebastianKra »

chuckadams wrote: post #24
karhuton wrote: post #18

My understanding is Apple / Webkit is blocking custom element extension on native HTML elements, which would cut down this 500 line monster to: class SaganButton extends HTMLButtonElement { … } Anyone know the reasoning they’re blocking this?

The only browser Apple is blocking it on is Safari: other browsers implement it just fine, and the standard passed over Apple's objections. The rationale was architectural, arguing that extending built-in components would lead either to brittle components that would break when new properties were added or causing the specification of builtin components to freeze forever to avoid such breakage. I'm not sure I buy the…

Standard practice in every decent frontend framework has been to create a component, that wraps the without rendering its own dom node. This avoids the typical downsides of inheritance.

Can we not just do `:host { display: contents }` and use the same approach?

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#43

Post by wartywhoa23 »

poisonborz wrote: post #7

This would have been a very smart and useful article up until 3 years ago. Now with AI doing this work is a minute, with most if not all considerations baked in, if some strange quirk would need it. Frameworks and dependencies made and replaced by custom "ground-up" creations is now a plausible reality. Not necessarily useful but doable and most importantly, testable in a fraction of time. We should readjust our sens…

> Now with AI doing this work is a minute ... Frameworks and dependencies made and replaced by custom "ground-up" creations is now a plausible reality.

"You only have to want it and believe in it, then it will succeed."

- Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin

"The airship [is] the future of commercial air transport in general."

- Dr. Hugo Eckener

"The age of the airship is no longer a dream of the future; it is a reality of the present. Giant dirigibles will soon cross every ocean, making obsolete the slow surface ships of today."

- Popular Mechanics, December 1929

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#44

Post by [deleted] »

nxc18 wrote: post #16
poisonborz wrote: post #7

This would have been a very smart and useful article up until 3 years ago. Now with AI doing this work is a minute, with most if not all considerations baked in, if some strange quirk would need it. Frameworks and dependencies made and replaced by custom "ground-up" creations is now a plausible reality. Not necessarily useful but doable and most importantly, testable in a fraction of time. We should readjust our sens…

There’s an interesting economic point to be made about the specialization of labor and the benefits that arise from that. Just like it is more efficient to have a food system than to have everyone feed themselves from their backyard (if they have one), maybe someday people will realize that it will be more efficient to build things once and re-use. Similarly, every argument for “AI makes it cheaper so we can do it no…

[deleted]

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#45

Post by Sankozi »

thyristan wrote: post #30
master-lincoln wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> except for one: It was closed source. And it was a security nightmare...

..., slow and resource-hungry, prone to crash, ...

Slower than pages with HTML+CSS with tiny bit of JS. Much faster and leaner than current JS SPAs.

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#47

Post by Sankozi »

ozim wrote: post #22
leecommamichael wrote: post #15

I expected a blog on how to write a button using a graphics API and basic OS interface; but instead I completely mistook (what the comments are saying is) sarcasm as advice on how to program for the web. I'm not a web guy, so I'm not really even sure why this is sarcastic, isn't semantic web good? I can't keep up with the opinions.

Semantic web is good if you are making web documents not web applications. Have a type and: submit a form; reset a form; or not do anything with the related form. No one uses buttons to submit a form in web applications. You use buttons to start/stop/change interaction flow. Native browser controls are not workable in a modern web application. It is not that developers are lazy it is that you get requirements from bu…

Agreed, that point in the article is lacking any source. Big part of complexity of the implementation was introducing form attributes and behavior.

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#48

Post by ezekiel68 »

chuckadams wrote: post #20
mireq2 wrote: post #4

Great satire but let's create that same for combobox with server side filtering. Now you have problem because it's not possible with native HTML elements. Many re-implementations are result of missing native elements.

Anything doing server-side work is going to have to be at least somewhat custom. The main problem is there isn't a standard "combobox" at all to speak of: we're still mostly stuck with the same carved-in-stone widget set from Mosaic, whereas native toolkits were more inventive even in the late 80s. Where's Athena's 2d panner widget, for example? I didn't read any satire in the article at all, it just laid out all the…

I imagine the commenter was referring to the article title wrt satire.

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#49

Post by droidrungrowth »

karhuton wrote: post #18

My understanding is Apple / Webkit is blocking custom element extension on native HTML elements, which would cut down this 500 line monster to: class SaganButton extends HTMLButtonElement { … } Anyone know the reasoning they’re blocking this?

The is="" customized-built-in path (extends HTMLButtonElement) is exactly what would collapse that 500-line reimplementation. Safari refusing it is why you still fall back to a full autonomous element + ElementInternals.

Re: If you want to create a button from scratch, you must first create the universe

#50

Post by tempfile »

CrimsonRain wrote: post #41
noduerme wrote: post #12

Just coming off a wild ride where a client was sued by a non-customer and a rapacious legal firm, who claimed that said client's website was not sufficiently accessible. The day after the lawsuit was filed, a company specializing in accessibility testing mysteriously contacted the client, offering a solution. Client had not even gotten notice of the litigation yet. The net result of this was several tens of thousands…

Excellent response. I said it before, forcing the responsibility of making thing accessible on the world makes no sense now (made sense before though). Just use an AI to interact with the app/website; it can provide whatever sort of accessibility you need. It should be built as a chrome extension or even native...

Does it count if you have to pay for a service for something to be made accessible? I'm sure a blind person nowadays could hire an assistant to use their computer for them, but that would not be reasonable.
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