Live data from Hacker News

European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

github.com

431–440 of 457 posts

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have jumped from "protecting children" to accusing them of an unrelated war crime for not censoring things aggressively enough. On top of that, the relevant law they would have to comply with in those countries would be the laws of those countries, and those are the governments committing the genocides.

Do you think Radio Libre was at all responsible for the Rwandan genocide?

How does this question bear any relation to age verification?

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US federal government has been doing that to the states for a while now. They don't have the constitutional authority to do something, so instead they shove a lever under something they nominally are allowed to do and tell the states "do the thing we're not allowed to, the way we tell you to, or else." Where the "or else" is something like, they collect billions of tax dollars from your constituents that you then…

Please provide examples, because this sounds highly speculative, and also straight up incorrect!

As an obvious example, regulating education isn't one of the enumerated powers of the US federal government, but there are numerous -- often controversial (e.g. NCLB) -- federal laws that take tax revenue from every state's constituents and return it to the state only if they comply with federal requirements the federal government has no power to impose on its own.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#433
post #308
post #25

This is the elephant in the room regarding the big "digital sovereignty" talks in the EU. For the moment in the EU institutions the focus is mostly at the post-acceptance stage that everything must eventually migrate off US clouds. There is still some denial and hope that things will go back to "before" because it's going to be extremely costly to migrate, but at least high level EU civil servants start to see the st…

Mobile is the UI/UX equivalent of… I don’t even know… a moon landing? A wonder of the world? I’m not saying it can’t be duplicated. I’m saying if you want to build a mobile platform you need to approach it with appropriate respect for the incredible difficulty of making something that usable.

Indeed. Power management alone is a massive research area with never-ending complexity across a bunch of domains. And nailing the ecosystem correctly is very hard (both devices and software). Security is another bottomless pit of research and improvement. When trillion-dollar companies like Amazon and Microsoft ceded mobile to Google and Apple, it was a good demonstration of how hard a successful mobile platform is to get off the ground.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#434
post #13

Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you.

There’s a huge amount of stuff that the EU does that no one consented to, or had a realistic democratic avenue to influence. I’m in the UK and very anti Brexit. But were we still in, I would have no idea how to influence what happens behind those closed doors at the European Commision. Granted the current UK Labour/ Conservative pact on these issues show they’re completely out of control. But I still theoretically kn…

Theoretically, you vote for the Parliament, and they influence the Commission.

The Parliament and Courts keep the Commission in check, although their… misguided rule of majority is bound to allow some nonsense to pass. Especially since the Commission is, in my view, made up of people that do NOT want what the citizens do. You could argue they represent the majority of their specific countries, but even that is stretching things a bit given how many people actually vote.

So: the Parliament, the Courts (you can bring them issues), the European Citizens’ Initiative, and indirectly through your own country’s agencies (e.g. your local DPA).

It’s not that different from the high levels of indirection and bureaucracy in most democracies, I think. (Not that I’m defending the EU, there’s plenty to attack.)

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#435
post #409
post #13

Don't fall for the trap. The question isn't how we should technically force age verification on anybody. The question is why they're pushing it onto everyone. I did not consent to this, neither did you.

Some people consent to it, and they have a voice too. If they win and you didn't also consider the technical solution, you will find yourself not only with a law you disagree with, but also with a terrible technical solution. So whatever you opinion is on the subject of forcing age verification, it is worth looking at the technical solution, especially if it is your domain of expertise.

Bruce Schneier goes on about this A LOT, and you’re exactly on point. If the knowledgeable tech people don’t get into policy, it will become law drafted by lawyers and MBAs. Man, I wish I knew how to get into policy…

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#436

I agree wholeheartedly with the argument raised in this github issue, but I think people are wrong to be skeptical about the concept of a government-issued age verification app. Thing is, the status quo is absolutely worse. My 13yo son likes making Roblox games. Suddenly, some months ago, Roblox made a change where you’re not allowed to share your games with friends unless you do “age verification”, apparently in som…

Here in the Baltics we already have an app for that. It's used to login to banks and government websites.

Recently one supermarket chain added it for age verification on their self-service checkouts (e.g. buying alcohol).

The problem with this is you do not know what information they get, I guess the supermarket gets my full name, date of birth, personal code, etc. Their privacy policy says it will not be stored, but that means nothing.

https://www.smart-id.com/

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US federal government has been doing that to the states for a while now. They don't have the constitutional authority to do something, so instead they shove a lever under something they nominally are allowed to do and tell the states "do the thing we're not allowed to, the way we tell you to, or else." Where the "or else" is something like, they collect billions of tax dollars from your constituents that you then…

Please provide examples, because this sounds highly speculative, and also straight up incorrect!

A major example is the US drinking age. Federal highway funds, which provide money for interstate highways, major US routes, etc, are partially contingent on states (who are given authority over alcohol laws both by the general police power and the 21st Amendment) setting the minimum age for the legal purchase of alcohol at 21. The National Minimum Drinking Age Act withheld 10 percent of highway funds from states that didn't comply. The fact that it wasn't 100% let the Supreme Court allow it to slide, but eventually all the states did comply, and effectively the US has a drinking age set by the Federal government instead of the states even though the states technically have the power to set an age themselves.

The Federal government using the withholding of funds to get the states to do what it wants is a well-documented phenomenon.

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#438
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're moving the goalposts from "pushing". It also leaves a bad taste in ones mouth that you brought up his Jewish background unprompted. I do wonder how your account is still active. Every time I see your name, it is in connection with you lowering the quality of conversation by introducing aggressive ad-hominems, dehumanizing language, insults and attempts to derail instead of engagement with points made. This tim…

[flagged]

It is only problematic because you brought up his ethnicity, out of nowhere, in a clear nod to Nazi ideology.

I had no idea he was Jewish, nor do I care. It has no effect on how I feel about him (which is poorly, because hes an American oligarch interfering with our democratic process).

The fact you brought his ethnic identity into it, without any conceivable reason, however, reeks of antisemitic stereotypes.

People can just be bad people. No need to bring their ethnic belonging into it, especially when it stokes the same flames that have brought horrendous cruelties before.

Your own definition proves my point on the pushing. "Pushing a law is the process of getting a bill enacted." That is indeed what he did by lobbying. The list of examples above is not exhaustive, as denoted by the word "includes".

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#439
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

It is only problematic because you brought up his ethnicity, out of nowhere, in a clear nod to Nazi ideology. I had no idea he was Jewish, nor do I care. It has no effect on how I feel about him (which is poorly, because hes an American oligarch interfering with our democratic process). The fact you brought his ethnic identity into it, without any conceivable reason, however, reeks of antisemitic stereotypes. People…

[flagged]

Re: European "age verification" "app" forcing everyone to use Android or iOS

#440
post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is only problematic because you brought up his ethnicity, out of nowhere, in a clear nod to Nazi ideology. I had no idea he was Jewish, nor do I care. It has no effect on how I feel about him (which is poorly, because hes an American oligarch interfering with our democratic process). The fact you brought his ethnic identity into it, without any conceivable reason, however, reeks of antisemitic stereotypes. People…

[flagged]

> That ethnicity is executing mass genocide in Gaza and is over 85%of the Epstein list perpetrators.

My friend, now you have crossed from implied antisemitism into open antisemitism.

Jews are not the same as Israelis. My lefty Jewish friends are all anti-Zionist. Conflating them is antisemitism.

> I brought it up because ethnicities are used as shield so that useful idiots seen above defend criminal

How can something be used as a shield or as anything for that matter if other people are not bringing it up or even aware of it?

The only one to ever bring it up is you, in connection with him manipulating the EU's democratic processes. He did in fact do that. But to try and connect it to his ethnic belonging into it is to harken back to the same conspiracy theories that devastated Europe a hundred years ago. Some reading material: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Jewish_conspirac...

Please rethink your ways. Stop being so toxic. Stop spreading antisemitism. Stop insulting other people. Stop with the pathologization of dissent, another callback to Europe's darkest hours.

I will not engage in this thread any further, as I truly believe nothing productive can come from it now that you have gone fully mask off. I hope the mods take action accordingly.

One last point regarding the pushing, nowhere does it say anything about legal abilities. Anyone can push a law. Any act involved in passing it is pushing, lobbying, voting, calling your rep, whatever. You keep trying to twist definitions to fit your preset conclusions. Your own source never narrowed it down the way you're trying to.

Post reply on HN