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SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

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Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the inclusion rules are basically "these are the hard limits that specify which stocks are eligible, unless someone really big and lucrative comes along, in which case it's whatever and we'll just adjust the rules to make them eligible"?

"Everyone has a price." - Pablo Escobar

[deleted]

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#392
post #41

The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…

So, the inclusion rules are basically "these are the hard limits that specify which stocks are eligible, unless someone really big and lucrative comes along, in which case it's whatever and we'll just adjust the rules to make them eligible"?

Turns out all the rules of our society are "hard limits unless someone with a lot of money disagrees at which point they become negotiable".

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#393
post #41

The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…

> worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules

Nasdaq 100 has always been marketed as a tech-forward index. It would be a bit ridiculous if they didn’t include the most value tech companies on the market.

There was a potential scandal at S&P. But it didn’t happen. My personal guess is a lot of finance influencers latched onto this story. When it didn’t pan out they tried to maintain credibility by shifting it onto the Nasdaq 100, where it doesn’t make sense.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're forgetting that whenever the incentives lead to bad places it isn't True Capitalism (tm).

True capitalism has never been tried. This right now is crony capitalism.

Crony capitalism is true capitalism. The idea that capitalists will simply choose not to organize to benefit their own positions out of some sense of altruism is insanely naive, and puts you in the same camp as USSR apologists claiming that their issue was the lack of true communism. A system that fails when people subvert it to their own benefit is a system that fails.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're living under true capitalism right now. Look at the incentives. I don't see how we could have progressed to anything besides this, this is the natural outcome of the system in place. American libertarians often imagine some kind of wonderland capitalism where everyone agrees to play by the rules that aren't enforced by anyone. To my knowledge this has never existed as a long-term equilibrium and it can't exist.…

The United States is far more socialist than capitalist and it’s not close. In the early 1900s the federal tax rate was 0. Now we spend 125% of what we bring in in taxes. That is definitely not capitalism. That’s not a free market, that is the government spending far beyond what’s even feasible

What does the relative level of government spending versus taxation have to do with whether businesses will self-regulate? You're just spewing non sequiturs here.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#396
post #165
post #91

Which is all sorts of backwards. Debt has liquidation preference over equity. And equity market say spacex has trillion+ of supposed equity buffer before it cuts into debt value

If the equity market says something that must make it true. Markets have never gotten valuations wrong

On the other hand the bond markets are pretty reliable too. It's all old school professionals in there not /r/wallstreetbets memekings pumping up their fav stonk

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#397
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the inclusion rules are basically "these are the hard limits that specify which stocks are eligible, unless someone really big and lucrative comes along, in which case it's whatever and we'll just adjust the rules to make them eligible"?

Isn’t that how capitalism works in general? Edit: thanks for the downvotes. Defenders of capitalism unite!!! lol. Free market right?

[dead]

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True capitalism has never been tried. This right now is crony capitalism.

Ah yes, because capitalism in it's purest form would never have companies form monopolies and lobby governments for favorable legislation.

[dead]

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#399
post #41

The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…

> worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules Nasdaq 100 has always been marketed as a tech-forward index. It would be a bit ridiculous if they didn’t include the most value tech companies on the market. There was a potential scandal at S&P. But it didn’t happen. My personal guess is a lot of finance influencers latched onto this story. When it didn’t pan out they tried to maintain credibility…

They changed the rules for one person.

You are the biggest simp for the rich.

They pay you to post here in their defense?

Discourse on this site is no better than Twitter or Reddit, just another flavor of stupid.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What even is "true capitalism"?

Usually "true capitalism" means one of two things: 1. Capitalism where there is no government or regulatory interference, and the "invisible hand of the free market" produces some kind of utopian society based purely on every business abiding by rules enforced by no one, where somehow corporations don't take advantage of workers they way they do now despite there being no laws against it. 2. The same thing but sarcas…

The "invisible hand of the free market" works only, if you have many market participants competing one against another. When a participant wins the competition you get monopoly, when multiple participants collude you get oligopoly, or cartel. Market can not solve this.

Historical examples:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Oil

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRAM_price_fixing_scandal

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OPEC

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