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Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

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Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#201

Post by jerlam »

nialv7 wrote: post #176
A1kmm wrote: post #21

I wonder how much of this is driven by confounding variables they haven't accounted for. They do factor in shift work as a categorical variable, and employment status as a categorical variable not taking into account occupation. But probably occupation (not a variable here) interacts with sleep status. Any job that involves a lot of flying (pilot, crew, people travelling for business) get more cosmic radiation exposu…

If you did read the paper, you'd have noticed that people who slept more regularly in this research were also wealthier, and more physically active. They did say they adjusted for these variables, but who knows. Maybe they didn't adjust them enough, maybe there are more covariates they didn't consider.

I don't know if they can have controls for "specific activity that changes their sleep schedule".

In the past few years I went from having relaxed 11AM daily meetings to rigid 8AM meetings, and my sleep has suffered immensely. But nothing else in my life has changed, so it wouldn't show up in my socioeconomic data.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#202

Post by kakacik »

stronglikedan wrote: post #128
kakacik wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mg or melatonin have 0 effects on me, Mg helps if I over-exercise but thats for muscles regeneration. I dont have problems normally, just cant sleep in high altitude, 3000m is already showing mild effects. Guess what, I do/did quite a bit of mountaineering, its easy to get above 5000m in himalayas, highest I've been in tent attempting to sleep before summit push was 6000m on Aconcagua. Tried both Mg and melatonin up…

> Mg or melatonin have 0 effects on me > I dont have problems normally A lot of things don't have effects on people that don't have the problems the thing is trying to solve.

I meant during higher altitude adventures, as rest of my post explains in detail. Did you get to that part?

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#203

Post by [deleted] »

nialv7 wrote: post #175
petilon wrote: post #82

Magnesium supplementation solved my sleep issues. I have seen many doctors, including sleep specialists, regarding insomnia. They all pointed to one source as the reason for the sleep issues: stress. And they all wanted to put me on prescription sleeping pills. I said no to that. Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. As a software developer, I am used…

Holy Dunning–Kruger effect... As a software developer, I am a much better doctor than actual trained doctors, and am definitely immune to any placebo effects.

[deleted]

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#204

Post by stouset »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #179
petilon wrote: post #82

Magnesium supplementation solved my sleep issues. I have seen many doctors, including sleep specialists, regarding insomnia. They all pointed to one source as the reason for the sleep issues: stress. And they all wanted to put me on prescription sleeping pills. I said no to that. Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. As a software developer, I am used…

Does this need to be supplement or can I "just eat the right food"? Or is there a "maximum low level deficit" which you will never leave with just eating the right stuff? (Like VitamineD deficit - it can get so low, that you cant fix it by "just going more into the sun")

From my experience, it took about a month of 150mg magnesium supplementation per day to see effects, two months for my insomnia to go away entirely.

Doing a quick search for magnesium-rich foods, it seems like it would take either an unsustainable focus on eating these foods to see results on a similar timeline or an extremely prolonged timeline to see similar results.

That said, I am not a doctor or nutritionist. But my instinct is that you can get so far in the hole with a lifetime of magnesium deficiency that supplementation is by far the most time- and lifestyle-efficient to digging yourself out. Whether or not switching to magnesium-rich foods can sustain you being at correct levels will end up depending on what the size of the deficit was in the first place, but is probably worth a try.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#205

Post by xp84 »

corysama wrote: post #194
shiftingleft wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. I found gwern's take on Melatonin interesting: https://gwern.net/melatonin A small excerpt: > One might object that they do not wish to tamper with their natural sleep, even if melatonin is a normally-secreted hormone. > Sad to say, I would point out to such readers that they are already profoundly tampering with…

This is a very important paragraph from quern's article > There are few to no side-effects to melatonin use in adults (there is uncertainty about the risks & benefits in children & adolescents28), and it is not addictive or habit-forming like caffeine is. The usual dose for a night is 0.5-3 mg and I take 1.5mg [29]; my dose is highly likely to be too high. High doses may well be responsible for why some people try me…

Natrol makes a 1mg gummy and Vitafusion has a peach flavored 1.5mg gummy (sold as “3mg” but the dose is “two gummies.” My kids use these. I get them on Amazon.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#206

Post by ljf »

petilon wrote: post #82

Magnesium supplementation solved my sleep issues. I have seen many doctors, including sleep specialists, regarding insomnia. They all pointed to one source as the reason for the sleep issues: stress. And they all wanted to put me on prescription sleeping pills. I said no to that. Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. As a software developer, I am used…

I find magnesium great - but I also like 5-HTP which I find also helps me sleep if I take it with a little food about 30 mins before bed. I find I feel a lot calmer when taking it - and it helps my ADHD - though I don't take it for too long, as I never like to take anything for too long.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#207

Post by ambicapter »

fsckboy wrote: post #177
mikepurvis wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take melatonin to sleep on a redeye, but otherwise don't use it. I find the effect is similar to taking a weed edible to fall asleep— basically, my wearable registers a lengthy period of deep sleep but instead of waking up feeling refreshed and ready for action, I'm groggy and fog-headed for several hours, or dependent on coffee to reverse the lingering effects. As someone who has never been a regular coffee consum…

"and don't do screens for the last few hours before bed" because that will help you fall asleep more quickly? or because that will help you sleep later in the morning 6 or 7 hours later? People never seem to mention that key aspect.

For me most things I do on a screen are fairly mentally stimulating (like video games), and even the ones that aren't (like watching a movie) inhibit the feeling of sleepiness I get when I abstain. So, it's better for falling asleep quickly.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#208

Post by DrammBA »

wetpaste wrote: post #198
fsckboy wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> rather than the recommended 8 hours of sleep for people getting 7 hours of sleep you're good. Improve your sleep hygiene, ok, but artificial interventions to get 8 may not be worth it for you.

7 is enough for a lot of adults. especially 7 hours of quality sleep. After seeing a sleep doctor I realized that stressing out about not getting exactly 8 hours each night was part of my problem! I did a lot of experimentation to find my optimal hours and it was not quite 8. Trying to force extra hours doesn't really work.

AFAIK 7-9 hours is the commonly used range, anything less than 7 hours or anything more than 9 can have detrimental effects on how well rested you feel after waking up. Where did you get the notion that adults need exactly 8 hours on the dot?

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#209

Post by mherkender »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #89

My problem is that I'm always sleepy throughout the day and when I have to go to bed at nigh, then I feel so active and energetic, as if my body tries its best to avoid sleeping.

I do that, it seems like a self-reinforcing pattern I end up in after messing up my sleep schedule. I take a sleep aid (like Zzzquil) for a bit to get back on schedule. Caffine before 1pm or so helps too.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#210

Post by xp84 »

voxic11 wrote: post #197
Aurornis wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comment above just said “sleeping pills” which is ambiguous. Melatonin is an OTC supplement. True “sleeping pills” are usually controlled substances and few doctors would prescribe them as first-line options for a patient who shows up with first time complaints of sleep problems. They won’t be prescribed long-term either. The part of the post that says doctors (plural) tried to prescribe the pills makes me think…

Lots of people take diphenhydramine products as sleeping pills and they are advertised as such OTC in the US. Long term Diphenhydramine use is associated with many negative health outcomes and despite the warning labels many people become dependent on them.

Yes - I saw a very interesting video the other day that educated me a lot on Benadryl - apparently it has a lot of side effects, can cause dementia, and is probably best avoided.
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