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Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

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Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#171

Post by quietbritishjim »

small_model wrote: post #152

I do bi/tri phase sleep, 6 hours at night, and 1-2 naps a day (I work remotely so allows me to nap when I want) This is the best, sleep when you need to you body knows best. Do you think our ancestors slept exactly 8 hours a night from 10pm to 6am? No they slept when they wanted.

> Do you think our ancestors slept exactly 8 hours a night from 10pm to 6am?

Yeah I pretty much do expect that (but more like 6 or 7). They were awake a few hours after sunset by fire light, then get up fairly early. I certainly don't imagine them napping during the day, when they could be working together to get food, unless it's a climate where it's too hot to do anything in the middle of the day.

Studies of modern hunter gatherers seem to back this up e.g. [1]

It's widely known that Victorians would have two sleeps over night, with a productive period in the middle, but this seems to be a misconception based on a passing remark in one court case. Even if true, this is a post-industrial society with unhealthily long working hours and I don't think we should be copying their sleep patterns.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S096098221...

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#172

Post by dns_snek »

teitoklien wrote: post #155
johndough wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment sounds like an AI-generated advertisement.

So where's the advert link to his favourite supplement, search those phrases and there will be 200 different brands selling this same commodity so which one is paying him commission ? All? Hmmmmmmm People sharing their experience doesnt immediately mean AI-generated advert

I'm not taking either side but people don't need to directly link to their own store to benefit from increased awareness and "hype" in some product category - a rising tide lifts all boats.

"Health" and more specifically the supplement industry is just a revolving door of fads. There's also survivorship bias, those who are obvious get banned quickly.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#173

Post by Aurornis »

shiftingleft wrote: post #95
petilon wrote: post #82

Magnesium supplementation solved my sleep issues. I have seen many doctors, including sleep specialists, regarding insomnia. They all pointed to one source as the reason for the sleep issues: stress. And they all wanted to put me on prescription sleeping pills. I said no to that. Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. As a software developer, I am used…

> Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. I found gwern's take on Melatonin interesting: https://gwern.net/melatonin A small excerpt: > One might object that they do not wish to tamper with their natural sleep, even if melatonin is a normally-secreted hormone. > Sad to say, I would point out to such readers that they are already profoundly tampering with…

The comment above just said “sleeping pills” which is ambiguous. Melatonin is an OTC supplement. True “sleeping pills” are usually controlled substances and few doctors would prescribe them as first-line options for a patient who shows up with first time complaints of sleep problems. They won’t be prescribed long-term either. The part of the post that says doctors (plural) tried to prescribe the pills makes me think it’s not traditional sleeping pills, because in this environment you would be unlikely to find one doctor willing to prescribe scheduled sleeping pills long term at all, let alone multiple doctors pushing them.

The usual suggestions from doctors for first line treatment are more mild medications that have drowsiness as a side effect, prescribed at low dose. I would actually prefer many of these low dose options over some of the high dose melatonin supplements. Melatonin is a hormone and taking it can throw off natural production

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#174

Post by almost_usual »

stronglikedan wrote: post #133
petilon wrote: post #82

Magnesium supplementation solved my sleep issues. I have seen many doctors, including sleep specialists, regarding insomnia. They all pointed to one source as the reason for the sleep issues: stress. And they all wanted to put me on prescription sleeping pills. I said no to that. Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. As a software developer, I am used…

> Magnesium supplementation solved my sleep issues. Which type, if you don't mind my asking? And how long did it take before you felt the benefits? I took it for a month once (forget which type) an hour before bed and nothing changed.

Magnesium Glycinate worked well for me, take it an hour before bed or so. L-Threonate is too expensive, citrate gave me diarrhea.

Much more deep sleep with Glycinate, some folks don’t like it because they feel too groggy after waking.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#175

Post by nialv7 »

petilon wrote: post #82

Magnesium supplementation solved my sleep issues. I have seen many doctors, including sleep specialists, regarding insomnia. They all pointed to one source as the reason for the sleep issues: stress. And they all wanted to put me on prescription sleeping pills. I said no to that. Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. As a software developer, I am used…

Holy Dunning–Kruger effect...

As a software developer, I am a much better doctor than actual trained doctors, and am definitely immune to any placebo effects.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#176

Post by nialv7 »

A1kmm wrote: post #21

I wonder how much of this is driven by confounding variables they haven't accounted for. They do factor in shift work as a categorical variable, and employment status as a categorical variable not taking into account occupation. But probably occupation (not a variable here) interacts with sleep status. Any job that involves a lot of flying (pilot, crew, people travelling for business) get more cosmic radiation exposu…

If you did read the paper, you'd have noticed that people who slept more regularly in this research were also wealthier, and more physically active. They did say they adjusted for these variables, but who knows. Maybe they didn't adjust them enough, maybe there are more covariates they didn't consider.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#177

Post by fsckboy »

mikepurvis wrote: post #157
shiftingleft wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. I found gwern's take on Melatonin interesting: https://gwern.net/melatonin A small excerpt: > One might object that they do not wish to tamper with their natural sleep, even if melatonin is a normally-secreted hormone. > Sad to say, I would point out to such readers that they are already profoundly tampering with…

I take melatonin to sleep on a redeye, but otherwise don't use it. I find the effect is similar to taking a weed edible to fall asleep— basically, my wearable registers a lengthy period of deep sleep but instead of waking up feeling refreshed and ready for action, I'm groggy and fog-headed for several hours, or dependent on coffee to reverse the lingering effects. As someone who has never been a regular coffee consum…

"and don't do screens for the last few hours before bed" because that will help you fall asleep more quickly? or because that will help you sleep later in the morning 6 or 7 hours later? People never seem to mention that key aspect.

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#178

Post by stronglikedan »

djoldman wrote: post #17

As always with a lot of these: it's not saying causation. You might measure the speed of your car by putting your hand out of the window and notice that the wind force on your hand is strong when the car goes fast. Putting your hand out of the window and then blocking the wind with a book doesn't make the car slow down. Keyword: "associated" EDIT: I meant to communicate that it doesn't make the car slow down as much…

> Putting your hand out of the window and then blocking the wind with a book doesn't make the car slow down.

Technically the book would add drag and the car would slow down but likely imperceptibly to a mere mortal

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#179

Post by KellyCriterion »

petilon wrote: post #82

Magnesium supplementation solved my sleep issues. I have seen many doctors, including sleep specialists, regarding insomnia. They all pointed to one source as the reason for the sleep issues: stress. And they all wanted to put me on prescription sleeping pills. I said no to that. Sleeping pills can cause dependence, and they often treat the symptom rather than the underlying cause. As a software developer, I am used…

Does this need to be supplement or can I "just eat the right food"?

Or is there a "maximum low level deficit" which you will never leave with just eating the right stuff?

(Like VitamineD deficit - it can get so low, that you cant fix it by "just going more into the sun")

Re: Sleep regularity is a stronger predictor of mortality risk than sleep duration (2023)

#180

Post by stronglikedan »

small_model wrote: post #152

I do bi/tri phase sleep, 6 hours at night, and 1-2 naps a day (I work remotely so allows me to nap when I want) This is the best, sleep when you need to you body knows best. Do you think our ancestors slept exactly 8 hours a night from 10pm to 6am? No they slept when they wanted.

I've tried this but naps make me groggy for the rest of the day, or sometimes I get confused thinking it's the next day. What's your secret to waking up refreshed from a nap?
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