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Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

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Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#31

Post by c0l0 »

tapoxi wrote: post #26
c0l0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long-term, that's the smart and also necessary move. But it can't be done overnight, and the transition has its significant challenges. I hope they don't mess it up it and will address these problems rationally - but given how most EU leaders have acted over these past few years, I remain painfully unconvinced that they will.

Isn't solar the fastest energy source to spin up? Just take them out of the crate, put them on racks, tie them to the grid.

I guess it is, but solar can only be part of the answer: You need a solid plan (and all the infrastructure that implementing this plan involves) for when the sun does not shine, because in the more northern parts of Europe especially, energy consumption is highest during seasons in which sunlight is (relatively) scarce.

Also, "the grid" cannot absorb any amount of solar energy - so if you choose to address (at least parts) of the above challenge with a photovoltaic build-out that results in massive excess capacity during summer, there needs to be a plan (and again, its implementation) to handle that.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#32

Post by toasty228 »

maxhille wrote: post #15
nkmnz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But they were cancelled for similar reasons based on fears fueled by Russian propaganda.

So the Fukushima disaster and US polluted ground water are Russian propaganda for you?

> the Fukushima disaster

Germany doesn't experience magnitude 7+ earthquakes on the regular... or at all for that matter. It 100% is manufactured fears

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#33

Post by sajithdilshan »

maxdo wrote: post #22
yanko wrote: post #11

Opening survival north stream single pipe for Russian gas is no brain solution. Europe break records importing relabeled Russian gas last month anyway

No brain because there is lack of survival instincts in such phrase? Russia openly declares willingness to destroy europe, your lifestyle, way of thinking etc. They claim they are better. Sure , sponsoring this country is no brainer lol. Germany already financed biggest war in europe since WWII by flooding russia with oil money. Is that not enough? Amount of money EU spent to tame the fire of war could easily cover b…

The primordial interest of the United States, over which for centuries we have fought wars the First, Second, and Cold Wars has been the relationship between Germany and Russia, because united, they're the only force that could threaten us. And to make sure that that doesn't happen. - This is a direct quote by George Friedman. This[1] is a good read to entertain the idea more.

[1] https://www.unz.com/mwhitney/the-crisis-in-ukraine-is-not-ab...

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#34

Post by lumost »

notTooFarGone wrote: post #30
sajithdilshan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once I had a discussion with a German that is a strong supporter of the green party and his argument against nuclear power was the nuclear waste and no proper was of disposing it and also building new nuclear power plants are expensive and take a long time. Then I did a deep research and created a PDF and pointed out that there has been many advances of re-using spent-nuclear fuel and minimize the environmental impac…

So we just have to build the first expensive 20 to get the experience and then we reap the rewards after 40 years when we need the knowledge again? If nuclear would be cheap in the western world I'd be all for it but we just can't do large projects in our ccurrent system. Solar + wind + battery is much less of an headache.

I think most nuclear folks would rather divert the "big coal, and nat gas" plant building budgets to "build nuclear."

I understand the motivations for solar/wind, but there are real limiters that aren't addressed yet. Nuclear is the only option that is carbon neutral and lacks those limiters making it appealing. If I need steady state gigawatt scale power in a specific location, Nuclear is the only green option.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#35

Post by jcfrei »

IceHegel wrote: post #16

I have always wondered about the origins of the anti nuclear opinion of Germans. It has Cold War origins to be sure, but what kind? I suspect American intelligence has been supporting the anti nuclear movement for some time, for non-proliferation reasons - and not just in Germany. I certainly would be, if I ran the State Department.

Some good answers below already. I think the anti nuclear movement already started before Chernobyl. I believe it was one of the founding ideologies of the green parties (the danger of high CO2 emissions was not yet front of mind for a lot of people back then). So the opposition to nuclear energy kind of laid the foundation for the modern (European) green parties. But these were all young people back then (in the 70s) and a they have now become the dominant generation in politics. So just like in any other country the 50+ years old are in charge and that cohort in Germany happens to have fond memories of opposing nuclear energy.

And just a little side note because I've looked it up recently: EU produces about the same amount of nuclear energy as the US - and that's despite Germany shutting down all reactors. So it's not like the US or any other region has a much higher usage.

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#37

Post by Bigpet »

toasty228 wrote: post #28
IceHegel wrote: post #16

I have always wondered about the origins of the anti nuclear opinion of Germans. It has Cold War origins to be sure, but what kind? I suspect American intelligence has been supporting the anti nuclear movement for some time, for non-proliferation reasons - and not just in Germany. I certainly would be, if I ran the State Department.

Just follow the gas pipelines...

That's part of it, but if you lived through months of news about where milk is unsafe and how to wash your vegetables and how much iodine to take. You'd maybe think differently too.

All the "oh, but it's different now, it's really safe" implies that the scientist at the time of the Chernobyl disaster didn't give assurance that it's totally safe either.

I am in favor of nuclear power and think that closing the plants was a huge mistake, but it's not somehow fully irrational to opose nuclear power. Not everyone has the hubris of thinking they can evaluate the risks when being shown some data. Nor can they distinguish the difference between "the experts then said it's safe" and "the experts now say it's safe".

Re: Germany maybe found a new source of renewable energy

#38

Post by toasty228 »

tapoxi wrote: post #26
c0l0 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long-term, that's the smart and also necessary move. But it can't be done overnight, and the transition has its significant challenges. I hope they don't mess it up it and will address these problems rationally - but given how most EU leaders have acted over these past few years, I remain painfully unconvinced that they will.

Isn't solar the fastest energy source to spin up? Just take them out of the crate, put them on racks, tie them to the grid.

Not to sound like an ass but that's your typical HNer hot take on a topic they don't know anything about (which is 99% of topics outside of tech).

I know that I don't know jack shit about the topic, but I can already tell you that if you do what you describe you'll quickly learn about why grids have frequencies, what generate these frequencies, and what happens when they drift.

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