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SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

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Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#111

Post by tejohnso »

xutopia wrote: post #61

I can't comprehend for the life of me that people put their life savings in what Elon Musk is doing. Are people not seeing how he's lying about the future all the time? He said he aimed to have 5000 Optimus robots out by end of 2025, 50000 by 2026 and 10 times that in 2027. He promised in 2015 that full autonomous driving would arrive in 2 years and we aren't there yet 11 years later. He even said in 2016 that there…

Well, rational or not, anybody that put a significant life savings into early TSLA and kept it there is retirement money rich now.

Lots of rational people kept shorting, thinking sanity would prevail, and ended up losing bigly.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#112

Post by wildzzz »

tyre wrote: post #46
richwater wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Nasdaq is a shit index to begin with. There are so many other options.

The NASDAQ is up 27% in the past 1 year. S&P 500 up 21%, DOW +20%. So, it's doing pretty well!

And a big chunk of that is the AI bubble. How are the rest of the non-AI industries doing?

https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/indices/equity/sp-500-ex-i...

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#113

Post by runarberg »

formvoltron wrote: post #48
lucd wrote: post #41

The worst about the SpaceX IPO is Nasdaq changing their inclusion rules for the Nasdaq 100. The index fast-tracked SpaceX stock for inclusion 15 days after the IPO, instead of the normal three-month seasoning period. They also changed its 10% minimum float rule to a 3x weighting boost for low-float stockss. So many people will unwillingly and prematurely invest into SpaceX, before it has any chance to discover its re…

nah the very worst thing about the spacex ipo is that schwab won't allow me to short it. has nothing to do with the recency of the issue. today i shorted some skhy when i realized it's trading about 30% over the Korean share price (I could be wrong about that)

I for one am glad that you were not allowed to short SpaceX. People gaming the market for their own profits are the worst kind of exploiters and swindlers. You contribute absolutely nothing while siphoning the profits that workers make, lowering the salaries of everyone that actually works for a living.

Note this has nothing to do with my feelings about SpaceX. I am Elon hater nr. 1 and hope SpaceX burns to dust, I only hope speculative investors burn down with it.

EDIT/CLARIFICATION: This post is fundamentally anti-capitalist. You may feel like I am mis-informed or misunderstanding. I am both of theses things if and only if Capitalism truly is self-evident.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#114

Post by quickthrowman »

baggachipz wrote: post #94
infecto wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really the worst thing? People keep bringing this up but it’s the Nasdaq 100. It would be shocking if we were talking about the SP500.

It almost was. S&P decided against it at the last minute, despite saying they would initially.

The S&P committee never said they would. Space X asked and the committee said no. They should not have asked.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#115

Post by quickthrowman »

stackghost wrote: post #106
tjwebbnorfolk wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ok but who is forced to buy the nasdaq 100?

Index funds, for starters.

I don’t even have access to a NASDAQ fund in my 401K. You have to go out of your way to buy the NASDAQ 100, QQQ and /NQ or /MNQ futures are the most popular instruments for getting exposure.

I have a tiny minute slice of SPCX from owning VTI total market ETF but my 401K holds no SpaceX.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#117

Post by fastball »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #64
tyre wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an investor in SpaceX but I don't think shorting stocks at IPO should be allowed. The market should be given time to settle on a price, and it's unlikely that anyone needs to short it on day 1 for hedging. It's purely price speculation. Yeah, I know why people _want to_ (betting), but it doesn't serve a broader economic purpose.

Why is line go up price discovery acceptable, but line go down price discovery not? If the shares are trading, you should be able to short, it’s arbitrary to disallow it. It is quite literally a part of the market settling on a price. (under the assumption your broker is managing their risk if your losses from a short position potentially exceeds capital available for liquidation if the trade moves against you)

Line go down discovery is acceptable (that is what selling a share is). The reason you might not want options trading very early after an IPO is because the market is frothy enough without the additional layer of complexity.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#118

Post by shermantanktop »

tyre wrote: post #62
formvoltron wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

nah the very worst thing about the spacex ipo is that schwab won't allow me to short it. has nothing to do with the recency of the issue. today i shorted some skhy when i realized it's trading about 30% over the Korean share price (I could be wrong about that)

I'm not an investor in SpaceX but I don't think shorting stocks at IPO should be allowed. The market should be given time to settle on a price, and it's unlikely that anyone needs to short it on day 1 for hedging. It's purely price speculation. Yeah, I know why people _want to_ (betting), but it doesn't serve a broader economic purpose.

“Broader economic purpose”?

It’s all betting.

If someone wants to dress it up in jargon or talk about beneficial second order effects, they can. But if putting money on an outcome you can’t control isn’t gambling, I don’t know what is.

Re: SpaceX bond worth 10% less than issue price – heading for junk bond status

#120

Post by dweekly »

iririririr wrote: post #99
dweekly wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interestingly enough, strong corporate governance and independent directors do not produce better returns. This is a central point in Eric Rees's book Incorruptible. https://leeds-faculty.colorado.edu/bhagat/bb-022300.pdf

guys a successful founder who lucked out and now has an academic hobby. I'd read other people if i were you.

1. He cites existing academic literature that is peer reviewed such as the link I provided.

2. If his claims are incorrect and poorly sourced, feel free to call them out. But his research appears to have been rather exhaustive on this topic.

3. If there are other sources that contradict these claims and are well researched, links are welcome

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